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Mystery tank I.D.....
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:26 pm
Post subject: Mystery tank I.D.....

I don't even know if it's real, but saw this link over at TheDonovan (Castle Argghhh).

kilabe.us/?cat=7
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

Huh... Got me.... It certainly looks British, but two things stand out as odd - one is the front hull being forward of the tracks (like on a Lingle Wink and the turret seems pretty well armed for a typical 1930s British light tank. I certainly cant seem to place it with one of the British light tanks, but I may be missing something...



It looks sorta like a Mk IV/V/VI... Maybe if the hull has been modded somehow and thats a fake barrel...

This is a good one for Jim.

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

I wish I could see a bigger picture but that turret screams M5 Stuart at me. I agree the suspenaion looks like a British light tank, but the turret looks later

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

- bsmart
I wish I could see a bigger picture but that turret screams M5 Stuart at me. I agree the suspenaion looks like a British light tank, but the turret looks later


Yeah, but I'm pretty sure its a standard Mk IV/V/VI turret... Note the traingular bulge on the left side of the turret on both pictures. This one might even have the right barrel:





If the gun isnt fake, it might be a Light Tank Mk VIC. Even then, the hull doesnt look quite right to me...

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

I think you've got it. The bulge on the side of the turret that I thought may be a closed off pistol port is clearly the bulge in your top picture. Engine compartment looks a little different in profile but you can see the drivers vision slot in both photos. I didn't remember the British light tanks having that much of a turret bustle.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

I think there may be other than an original front sprocket of smaller diameter mounted that is making the front lower slope of the vehicle more prominent than it originally was. Might also explain all the slop in the track.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

Yeah, I thought of that, but it appears that the fenders arent far enough forward, they should come to edge of the front of the hull - or the hull is extended more forward than usual....

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

I think the fenders may have been chopped also. The 'bend' in the fender is just above the center point (axle) of the drive sproket which is the same as the other picture you have. so if the front part of the fender had been replaced (maybe at the same time as the sproket) it could explain the current config.

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

- Neil_Baumgardner
It looks sorta like a Mk IV/V/VI... Maybe if the hull has been modded somehow and thats a fake barrel...

This is a good one for Jim.


After the british withdrawl from Iraq Post WW2 the Iraqis discovered a large amount of Vickers Mk V & VIA/B/C light tanks were left behind along with some bren carriers - none of which were in what could be called 'good' condition. The entire collection was canabalised to produce about 25 vehicles based on the Vickers light tank. The hulls were, apparently modified, by mainly welding them together and adding odd bits of armour cut from the Carrier hulls.

The engines were replaced by those from chevrolet trucks of which there were no end of them lying around the Middle East at that time.

In addition the turrets were modified to have an armament comprising either a 15mm BESA and a 7.92mm BESA or a 303 Vickers. Due to the shortage of 15mm BESAs some vehicles carried a dummy barrel (Platoon commanders?) A turret bustle was added to enable an unidentified american radio set to be carried - and the shape did tend to vary slightly from square no doubt depending on where the panels were cannabalised from on the donor vehicles.

The last of these vehicles were still in service in 1958 when they were used in the coup which is probably why that one is on a pedestal.

Information from Iraqi Notes dated October 1959.

BTW I think the vehhicle in the image is missing its sprocket on the visible side.

Cool

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

Jim, thanks for the great info as usual. So do you think the front hull of this one has been moded to extend out further, or is that just the fenders being cut-back?

Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

- Neil_Baumgardner
Jim, thanks for the great info as usual. So do you think the front hull of this one has been moded to extend out further, or is that just the fenders being cut-back?


I think the whole of the upper glacis and engine deck was replaced which is why it looks so level and 'different' but the fenders have definately been cut back. The missing sprocket doesn't help...

Cool

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Last edited by JimWeb on Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

Any idea where it's at?? The track looks like MTLB block. A lot of the Iraqi monuments that have tanks were cobbled together with tracks from other equipment. It just had to look good on the plinth.

Joe D
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery tank I.D.....

- Joe_D
Any idea where it's at?? The track looks like MTLB block. A lot of the Iraqi monuments that have tanks were cobbled together with tracks from other equipment. It just had to look good on the plinth.


My first thought was that its either MTLB or M3 light tank (minus rubber) track but the picture isn't clear enough to establish this. It will have to wait till some better images become available.

Cool

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