±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 466
Total: 466
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Home
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Statistics
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Home
15: Home
16: Your Account
17: Home
18: Home
19: Home
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: News
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: News Archive
35: Photo Gallery
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Statistics
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Statistics
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Statistics
58: Photo Gallery
59: News Archive
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Downloads
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Photo Gallery
79: Downloads
80: Member Screenshots
81: News Archive
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: News Archive
88: Photo Gallery
89: Photo Gallery
90: Home
91: Photo Gallery
92: Home
93: Downloads
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Member Screenshots
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Home
114: Photo Gallery
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Home
124: Member Screenshots
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Photo Gallery
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Downloads
135: Member Screenshots
136: Downloads
137: Photo Gallery
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Home
144: Home
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Photo Gallery
148: Home
149: Home
150: Member Screenshots
151: Downloads
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: News Archive
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Photo Gallery
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Home
185: Member Screenshots
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Home
200: Photo Gallery
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Member Screenshots
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Member Screenshots
214: Photo Gallery
215: Member Screenshots
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Downloads
219: Home
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: Home
227: Home
228: Home
229: Home
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: News
233: Home
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Downloads
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Member Screenshots
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Home
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Member Screenshots
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Member Screenshots
267: Home
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: News Archive
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Photo Gallery
275: Downloads
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Member Screenshots
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Home
283: Downloads
284: Member Screenshots
285: Home
286: Photo Gallery
287: Home
288: Photo Gallery
289: Home
290: Home
291: Home
292: News Archive
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Downloads
297: Photo Gallery
298: Home
299: Member Screenshots
300: Home
301: Home
302: Member Screenshots
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Member Screenshots
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Member Screenshots
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Member Screenshots
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Statistics
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Downloads
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Member Screenshots
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Home
347: Member Screenshots
348: News
349: Home
350: Home
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Photo Gallery
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Member Screenshots
366: Home
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Member Screenshots
373: Home
374: Member Screenshots
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Member Screenshots
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Member Screenshots
382: Home
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Downloads
387: Home
388: Home
389: Photo Gallery
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Member Screenshots
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Member Screenshots
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Home
406: Photo Gallery
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Home
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Member Screenshots
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Statistics
421: Home
422: Your Account
423: Community Forums
424: News Archive
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Member Screenshots
428: Member Screenshots
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Photo Gallery
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Downloads
447: Home
448: Home
449: News Archive
450: Home
451: Home
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Member Screenshots
455: Community Forums
456: Statistics
457: Photo Gallery
458: Downloads
459: Downloads
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Member Screenshots
466: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Lingle vs Lynx
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:49 pm
Post subject: Lingle vs Lynx

How dose the M114 compare the M113 Lynx CR used by the Canadians?
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

One belongs to the immediate family of one of the most successful and enduring AFV's ever conceived, with good mobility, reliability, and flexibility.

The other one....doesn't.

Apart from a short service life (even the M551, a vehicle that in one role, replaced it, compared favorably with regard to this) it had difficulty with frontal obstacles due to overhang.

LTC Burton S. Boudinot told me privately that he had to take 10 vehicles if he needed to count on having six, so unreliable was it. He was very harsh on it in other ways as well. LTC Boudinot was instrumental in evaluations and fielding of both the M114 and M551 and he was not satisfied with either. He commented that his candor regarding the limitations of the M114 in all likelyhood negatively impacted his career.

There's no question there was a role for such a vehicle, but the execution was something else. Roy will probably be a bit more generous in his assessment.

I wish the Product Improved M113AI or Dutch YPR 965 had been given a shot here(less the cumbersome separate weapon station/TC position that was proposed originally). It ain't no Bradley, but then again, they're still in service.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

Hi J! Hi Folks!

"The Lingle", the world's greatest Scout track, HAS NO EQUAL!

A long time ago in another life time, knowing the Army wanted to replace the M-114, I for one was hoping they would buy the Lynx or as FMC called it back then the M-113 & 1/2. The Lynx is just a little bit bigger than the M-114, but I think it was still a very good size for an armored scout vehicle. Unlike the M-114 which would stick it's nose into an embankment. The track to hull layout of the Lynx is the same as the standard M-113. I think that any place a standard M-113 could go, a Lynx could also go.

The Lynx mounted the same turret found on the M-114A1, the XM-26 with a M2 HB TT .50 cal. That means it could have been upgraded with the XM-27 powered turret with the M-139 20mm autocannon.

During one Reforger Operation, my scout section jumped a pair of Canadian Lynxs. Razz That was the one and only time I have ever seen one close up. Razz The crew was French Canadian and none of them spoke English Sad so we couldn't asked them any questions about their vehicles. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

I think the US Army missed a very good opportunity when they didn't buy the Lynx. Canada bought 174 (starting in May 1968) and Holland bought another 250 (starting in September 1966). FMC did all the development work on their own (first prototype completed in 1963) so there was almost no cost to the US Army. Something like when Bell helicopter took a litter carrying troop carrier and slimed it down leaving room for a crew of two setting one behind the other and offered it to the Army as a weapons carrier! Ask any wingie fan how well that idea worked out!

The cancelled ASRV (XM800 T & W) program didn't even start until October 15th of 1971 when a Request for Proposal was issued. I think that long before that, the M-114 could have been replaced by the Lynx. Even if the Army still ran the ASRV project and still cancelled it when they did, it's possible that the Lynx might still be carring Scouts around today. Possible they would have never ended up with the M3 CFV. I wonder if the turret from a Bradley would fit the turret ring on a Lynx? How's that for a twisted idea? Twisted Evil

Bottom Line, give me a choice between a M-114 or a Lynx, I would take the Lynx! After all it is a M-113! When it comes to AFVs, they don't come any better than FMC's M-113 Family of Vehicles! Razz In time (latter part of the 1970s), what did Scouts end up with? Fill size M-113 APCs! Confused

I get the feeling that the US Army has a major problem with 'nothing is good enough' and in the end Scouts have ended up with one bad scout vehicle after another.

When it comes to those individauls who effectived the use of the M-114 in service with the US Army, the ONLY MAN who was able to do the right thing, was General Abrams as Chief of Staff of Army when he went before Congress to request special funds to buy M-113A1s to replace all the M-114s. The problems with the M-114 should have never got that far. Crying or Very sad

My 2 cents on Lynx vis 'The Worlds Greatest Scout Vehicle Ever'!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Hell, now I need a beer!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

- Doug_Kibbey

LTC Burton S. Boudinot told me privately that he had to take 10 vehicles if he needed to count on having six, so unreliable was it. He was very harsh on it in other ways as well. LTC Boudinot was instrumental in evaluations and fielding of both the M114 and M551 and he was not satisfied with either. He commented that his candor regarding the limitations of the M114 in all likelyhood negatively impacted his career.


Was Boudinot Hall (at Fort Knox) named after him?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

In my limited track time, almost exclusively in Lynxes, I would have to agree that it is THE go-anywhere delinquent little hellraising brother of the M113 family. Same engine, same gearing, lower height, lighter weight and shorter trackbase than an M113. Except for snow and forests, the Lynx was the cat's axe for mobility.

However, every Lynx crewmember had to live out of his pockets because after loading all the kit the staff thought was required in a recce C/S, there was bugger all room left over.

JP Morgan did an excellant article on 3RCR Recce Pl Lynxes for George's AFV News about 10 yrs ago. Worth digging out just for reference sake.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

LTC Burton S. Boudinot told me privately that he had to take 10 vehicles if he needed to count on having six, so unreliable was it.


Six! He still had six? Surprised

That reminded me on one of the Reforgers I was in as part of an infantry battalion scout platoon with nine M-114s and a M-113.

Out of the four vehicles in my section, mine was the only one that made it out and back to base under it's own power. My driver did break some of the steering linkage on day one of the wargame. It took him about an hour to take some parts from other linkage so we could get back in the game.
The other section leader also lost all of his other vehicles with his vehicle dying on the way back to the assemble area after the wargame had ended.
The platoon leader lost his somewhere during the 10 days, and he ended up using the platoon sergrant's M-113.

So after ten days, a platoon of nine M-114s and one M-113 had ONE M-114 and the one and only M-113 for a total of two vehicles. Crying or Very sad
O! Buy the way, we all looked at that M-113 as a pile of junk! But that pile of junk was almost always running!

When I was at Ft. Bliss, B Troop, 1st Sqdn, of the 3rd ACR was called out on a no notice deployment to Hollaman Air Force Base with a road march down throught White Sands National Moument, across the White Sands Missile Range down into the northern range area of Ft. Bliss. The troop had three M-114A2 per platoon with the Heaquarters GSR section having two more. When we crossed the line of departure to conduct an area recon mission, out of 11 M-114A2s, one from the GSR section, crossed the LD.

At that time a Cavalry Troop had three platoons with ten vehicles each for a total of 30 AFVs.

Out of nine Sheridans, one crossed the LD.
One M-114A2 crossed the LD.
The 1st Sgt's M-151A2 crossed the LD.
Seven other vehicles also crossed the LD that day. All of them were M-113s. APCs, TOW and 4.2 mortar carriers.

Out of 30 platoon vehicles, we lost 22 of them on that road march. Many of those M-113s were considered junk piles. But they were the primary suriving vehicles as we crossed that LD that day.

Six? He still had six?
Doug, are you sure LTC Boudinot wasn't using 'new' math to count his vehicles?
Sgt, Scouts Out! Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Now I need another beer!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
recceboy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Edmonton,Alberta
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

I have photos of a 114 beside a Lynx deep in my basement...Will dig them out and post them. We gained the 114 from one of our training areas. It was air dropped in , landed in the woods and forgot about , until after being chased by the bad guys on "ex "we came across it .My unit brought it back to base , and we had it in the vehicle line up for awhile then it was gone .If I remember is was also next to one of our regular 113's....Will have to dig up the photos..............................:)
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Lingle vs Lynx

- Neil_Baumgardner

Was Boudinot Hall (at Fort Knox) named after him?

Neil


His father, who retired as a MG. Died in late '45, buried in Arlington:

www.arlingtoncemetery....udinot.htm

Plans & Training Officer, AFRTC, Ft. Knox 1940-42
Commanding Officer, 32nd Armored Regiment 1942-44
Commander, Combat Command "B", 3rd Armored Division 1944-45
Commanding General, 7th Armored Division 1945
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum