±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6646

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 221
Total: 221
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: CPGlang
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: CPGlang
05: CPGlang
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Home
10: CPGlang
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: CPGlang
14: CPGlang
15: CPGlang
16: CPGlang
17: Community Forums
18: CPGlang
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Member Screenshots
22: Community Forums
23: Statistics
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: CPGlang
29: Community Forums
30: CPGlang
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: CPGlang
34: Community Forums
35: Downloads
36: CPGlang
37: Community Forums
38: CPGlang
39: Home
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: CPGlang
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: CPGlang
50: Community Forums
51: CPGlang
52: Community Forums
53: CPGlang
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: CPGlang
58: Photo Gallery
59: CPGlang
60: Home
61: CPGlang
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Member Screenshots
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: CPGlang
69: Home
70: CPGlang
71: Home
72: CPGlang
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: CPGlang
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Downloads
79: CPGlang
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: CPGlang
84: CPGlang
85: Community Forums
86: CPGlang
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: CPGlang
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: CPGlang
93: CPGlang
94: Home
95: Member Screenshots
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: CPGlang
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: CPGlang
105: CPGlang
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: CPGlang
109: CPGlang
110: Community Forums
111: CPGlang
112: Home
113: CPGlang
114: Home
115: Home
116: CPGlang
117: CPGlang
118: Community Forums
119: CPGlang
120: CPGlang
121: CPGlang
122: Home
123: CPGlang
124: Member Screenshots
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: News
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: CPGlang
136: Home
137: CPGlang
138: CPGlang
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: CPGlang
144: Home
145: CPGlang
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: CPGlang
149: Home
150: CPGlang
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: News
154: CPGlang
155: CPGlang
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: CPGlang
159: CPGlang
160: Community Forums
161: CPGlang
162: CPGlang
163: CPGlang
164: Search
165: CPGlang
166: Community Forums
167: CPGlang
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: CPGlang
171: Member Screenshots
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: CPGlang
177: Photo Gallery
178: CPGlang
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: CPGlang
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: CPGlang
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: CPGlang
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: CPGlang
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: CPGlang
204: Community Forums
205: CPGlang
206: CPGlang
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: CPGlang
210: Home
211: Home
212: CPGlang
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: CPGlang
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: CPGlang
220: Community Forums
221: CPGlang

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

Why should they send them anywhere for training? Give them the basics and then send them to the big cold sandbox in central Asia to fill in doing other jobs like patrolling in MRAPs. Remember we don't need heavy armor anymore it's all about asymetrical warfare.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4677
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

- bsmart
Why should they send them anywhere for training? Give them the basics and then send them to the big cold sandbox in central Asia to fill in doing other jobs like patrolling in MRAPs. Remember we don't need heavy armor anymore it's all about asymetrical warfare.


"The tank is dead." I gotta' keep reminding myself of that. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:57 am
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

Hi Folks!

It so sad that a group of people who funded a museum for civilians to learn about steam trains don't want civilians to learn about their Army's history.

As for sending units to Ft Knox to train, the BRAC did the same thing to the Air Defense Artillery. Ft Still doesn''t have the area required for modern artillery. The Army wanted to close Ft Still and bring the Field Artillery here to Ft Bliss which has ranges large enough to fire anything. Now in addition to field artillery (for the most part MLRS battalions) the air defense units must come here for live firings.

This BS just makes me sick.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical valu

I've been out of town, but I'm not sure if I can add much to the discussion that hasn't already been said (but that's not going to stop me).

The reason given for moving the vehicles from the Patton Museum to Fort Benning was for "training" and showing the progression of armor design. As one person was quoted as saying "You don't move and leave the family photographs behind."

I've also heard that the move had to do more with economics than training because the locals wanted the tanks there as a tourist draw and had the politcal clout to get it done. I wonder if it was to help bolster the tourist draw to the infantry museum since it is not drawing the crowds for all the money that was invested in its construction (with restaurant/IMAX theater).

It would be ironic if after all this the vehicles are put into storage and the only people who see them are the armor school students. That won't help the local economy.

Realistically the only vehicles needed today for training are ex-Warsaw Pact vehicles and technicals. If students needed to see the historical context of armored vehicles, they could have been sent to Fort Knox a whole lot cheaper than sending the tanks to Benning.

If there are any vehicles they don't need, I hope they send them back to Fort Knox. Yeah, fat chance.

Garry

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:38 am
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart
Why should they send them anywhere for training? Give them the basics and then send them to the big cold sandbox in central Asia to fill in doing other jobs like patrolling in MRAPs. Remember we don't need heavy armor anymore it's all about asymetrical warfare.


"The tank is dead." I gotta' keep reminding myself of that. Smile


Weeelllll ... The current rotation thru JMTC Graf/Hohenfels is a "Full Spectrum Operations" exercise - not counter-insurgency (the first FSO there in years). It's not with tanks, because the units going thru the exercise aren't armor units, but if 170th or 172nd were doing this rotation, it would be kinda-sorta like the "old days" at Hohenfels, with tank-on-tank.

Oh, and FWIW, I've been off-and-on associated with the Armor School since 1978, and I never saw any official training done on the Patton Museum "training collection," except as noted above - on the T62. I really don't think the modern Armor students at Ft. Benning need any sort of training on a Tiger II or Panther II, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:41 am
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

Yeah, like Geoff said, the Army is starting to place more emphasis on "Full Spectrum Operations" - going back to basics, including conventional military operations as well as COIN. With the Army largely out of Iraq, and theoretically getting out of Afghanistan in the future, less and less emphasis will be placed on COIN. What that exactly means for the Army's future is less certain...

But quietly, the tank is starting to make a comeback...
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

Back in 1991, right after the Gulf War, I recall my AOAC class going to the museum and getting a demonstration on how the Sherman was able to defeat the Panther (because of the motorized traverse). It was given by a former WW2 Sherman tank commander. I believe he traversed and made several fire commands prior to the Panther getting its main gun laid on the Sherman.

Although, I figured the tanks normally turn their noses into the direction of fire and that woud hasten laying the main gun on target.

If politics weren't involved, the Army would have probably moved all combat arms training to Bliss. Good amount of maneuver space, range impact areas and the weather allows soldiers to acclimate to regions where we tend to spend our combat tours.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

Rob

I remember back in the early 90's (during the Clinton era drawdown) while I was at Ft Hood, there were definite rumors of moving the Armor Center to Ft Hood. It actually made sense, although I don't know how serious that was, at the time. The standard reply to moving the Armor Center was the 'KGB' (ie "Knox Good ole Boys") would never allow a move to happen.

I guess 'they' sold out too.....

Having served at Ft Polk, which had similiar problems with wildlife & EPA as Ft Benning seems to have now, the choice of Ft Benning made no sense, until you add the massive amount of political pull which Ft Benning 'flexed' to gain the favorable choice.

Too bad BRAC 05 did't stick to a realistic goal of 'saving' taxpayer money.....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: Army Museum artifacts for "training" vs "historical value"?

I spent my formative years at Hood as well, post Desert Storm from 92 (after I completed AOAC & BMOC) to Jan 95. When that ADA Patriot unit moved into town, 5th Mech/2AD/4th Mech came to town and a whole lot of non-divisional units, I couldn't imagine where the Armor Center would have moved to.

There wasn't room to think in 93-95 at Hood, not that thinking was a requirement at Hood.

I think the real savings thought was getting the Army out of high cost of living areas like VA and moving them to the sticks at Knox. But no one figured out just how much it would cost to move all the pieces before they made the decision to move.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum