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Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:16 pm
Post subject: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

I assume this thing was built off of something right?





www.secoaugusta.com/Tiger2000.htm

Neil
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Dubliner
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

nt


Last edited by Dubliner on Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Yeah, I think you might be right...

Neil
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

The tracks are definitely an M41 Walker Bulldog or M42 Duster and not the type found on an M24 Chaffee.

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Vivman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:52 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

With the drive sprockets in the front, I think that rules out an M-41. I believe it is a M-24 chassis with T91E3 tracks
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Hi Folks!

It would help if we could see more detail in that hull area that is painted black.

I was thinking possble M41 (they turned things around) or maybe a M8 HST.

Interesting vehicle.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Confused

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tanker2010
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

- Vivman
With the drive sprockets in the front, I think that rules out an M-41.


What's that got to do with anything? If you've built a different vehicle, you can put the drives where ever you want.
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Vivman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:14 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

- tanker2010
- Vivman
With the drive sprockets in the front, I think that rules out an M-41.


What's that got to do with anything? If you've built a different vehicle, you can put the drives where ever you want.


Wellll... How about this, WHY would you go to all the trouble of completely redesigning the drive train when it is perfectly fine as is. Swapping ends of the drive sprocket really has no benefit for this vehicle that I can discern. Can you tell me how swapping ends helps? WHY would someone go to the trouble?

Furthermore, I enhanced the photos and I was able to better see the particulars of the suspension and I am more convinced that it is a M24. You can see that the return rollers are mounted EXACTLY where they should be on a M24 (rollers 1 and 2 closer to each other than 2 is to 3. Roller 1 is between road wheels 1 and 2, roller 2 is between road wheels 2 and 3 and roller 3 is between road wheels 4 and 5 - just the way god planned it)

In addition, if you compare the chassis of the M24 and M41 you will notice that the separation between the road wheels is much less on the M24. If you look at the two pictures above and compare them to a picture of a M24 you will notice that the road wheel separation matches.

Now I guess you can move the return rollers and move the road wheels closer together (in keeping with tanker2010's argument) and, in effect, have a vismod M41 of a M24. After all that cutting moving and welding my question still remains - WHY?

When I hear hoof beats behind me, I tend to think it is a horse, not a zebra. Remember Occam's razor.
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tankbarrell
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:29 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

It's an M75 chassis. You can see the steps at the rear and even the lower half of the rear door openings. Also tht front plate is pure M75.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:43 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Hi Vivman! Hi Folks!

- Vivman

... WHY would you go to all the trouble of completely redesigning the drive train when it is perfectly fine as is. Swapping ends of the drive sprocket really has no benefit for this vehicle that I can discern. Can you tell me how swapping ends helps?


It's not a case of someone swapping the drive sprockets around, it's not about redesigning the drive train. There have been other pictures posted here over the years that have shown vehicles where the driver's position has been move to the other end of the hull. As for why, it would open up more of the fighting compartment for what ever the owner wanted the vehicle to do.

The track block does look like the type used on the M41 FOVs which the M24 is not a member. That would mean that someone took the trouble to switch out the sprockets if that is a M24 hull. That could also mean that someone did a lot of work to push the suspension system out so the wider M41 track block would clear the sides of the hull.

While I first though it was possbly a M41 or M42 that had been cut down, I now agree with tankbarrel's post that it is a M75 APC that has been cut down. I don't have my books with me, but isn't the M75 APC based on the M41 hull/powertrain layout? If so, that would account for the M41 type track block.

Still a little confuzed and not 100% sure. Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Vivman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Yep, I now have to agree with tankbarrell, it looks like a M75 Chassis.

Just for the record the M75 was based on the T43E1 Cargo Tractor. The T43E1 was based on the M24, but the angle on the front lower hull and the rear steps are indicative of an M75.

Good call tankbarrell
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Hi Folks!

Compair that bumper looking thing acrossed the front end of that Tiger 2000 with the front end of this M75 taken by Jeff at the 4th ID Museum.



Hey Jeff! If you have time, could you please take a photo of the left rear corner of that M75 and also the left rear corner of the M84 mortar carrier?

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Roy,I have been quite busy lately and have not been able to get on here. Thursday-Friday I was on a Marriage retreat with the Mrs. to clelbrate our 15th Ann. Then I spent Sat-Sunday clearing land on a ranch by here with a friend who will be deploying soon. Now I'm in Casualty Assistance Officer course for this entire week. I dont have any pictures of the rear of the M75 above. I do have pictures of the M84 Mortar Carrier that was at Ft Irwin. It is the cousin of the M59 APC. Perhaps the M59 was what you were inquireing about? It's about to come in it's own thread shortly.

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:32 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Roy,I have been quite busy lately and have not been able to get on here. Thursday-Friday I was on a Marriage retreat with the Mrs. to clelbrate our 15th Ann.


Always important to acknowledge that our wives serve with us, unpaid and almost never publically appreciated for their support and encouragement. My ten year is coming up.

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Then I spent Sat-Sunday clearing land on a ranch by here with a friend who will be deploying soon. Now I'm in Casualty Assistance Officer course for this entire week.


Good luck and I hope you have a boring uneventful stint in the job.

Back on task - My guess is this vehicle is a Wood Tiger produced by South East Equipment (or whatever they call themselves) in Georgia. They chopped and channeled any APC and HS Tractor chassis they could find to make lumber hauling vehicles. The same guys who had the Portugese Grizzlies and Sextons a few years back.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:24 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger 2000? Whats this thing based on?

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

I have been quite busy lately and have not been able to get on here.


No problem, and no rush! Only if and when you have the time. Place my request at the very bottom of all the things you have do and want to do.

- SFC_Jeff_Button

Thursday-Friday I was on a Marriage retreat with the Mrs. to clelbrate our 15th Ann.


Fifteen years! Well done to both of you! That's not easy to do while serving in the military.

- SFC_Jeff_Button

I dont have any pictures of the rear of the M75 above. I do have pictures of the M84 Mortar Carrier that was at Ft Irwin. It is the cousin of the M59 APC. Perhaps the M59 was what you were inquireing about? It's about to come in it's own thread shortly.


I was thinking about both of them. This thread has me reading up on the history of the M75 and M59. I am surpised how much their track system looks like the M41 tank, but in fact they are not base on any tank at all. You M59 thread was a great help with that vehicle, thanks!

Congratulations to the wife and you on 15 years!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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