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Neil_Baumgardner

Yeah, that and the front shape of the hull. I'll need to check my Crismon sometime this weekend, unless someone can beat me to it...

Neil

JimWeb

- blackdog

That is an army prototype

JimWeb · Last edited by JimWeb on Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

- Neil_Baumgardner

Its close, but this appears to be the second XM759

preservedtanks.com/Ima...hotoID=200

No thats the original prototype.

And this is the Marine Corp prototype..

EDIT - Had to change the image link because I was working on the web pages

blackdog · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 11, 2010 Posts: 58

How can you tell? As far as I know, it was in the Amphibious Museum on Camp Pendleton and then subsequently loaned to a private collector, sold illegally by this person, restored by the next owner, then taken back by the USMC.

On a related note, I find this vehicle to be the perfect example of why many one of a kind vehicles are better off in civilian hands in private collections than in government hands. It would have never been restored to the condition it is now in if it had stayed in the Marine Corps.

JimWeb

Oh and I fixed the link on my web site...

Neil_Baumgardner

So Jim, what is this then?

preservedtanks.com/Ima...hotoID=200

Neil

JimWeb

- Neil_Baumgardner

So Jim, what is this then?

preservedtanks.com/Ima...hotoID=200

Neil

Thats the original prototype - it performed well so both the Army & USMC decided to buy their own prototypes. The US Army (of course) went for a utility version and the USMC went for the luxury model Wink

JimWeb

- blackdog

How can you tell?

Pictures from the Army trials - conducted seperatly from the USMC trials of course Wink

JimWeb

- blackdog

How can you tell? As far as I know, it was in the Amphibious Museum on Camp Pendleton and then subsequently loaned to a private collector, sold illegally by this person, restored by the next owner, then taken back by the USMC.

Interesting - So which is this one then...

blackdog · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 11, 2010 Posts: 58

That's the one I'm talking about.

JimWeb

Interesting... you will have noticed by now that we have images of four different vehicles?

I'm beginning to think that the USMC ended up with the army prototype as well..

blackdog · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 11, 2010 Posts: 58

In terms of surviving ones, I'm seeing the two at Quantico, and the one that I posted pictures of.

www.oto6.free.fr/6roue...airoll.htm

Picture #4 = Quantico
Picture #5 = Pendleton Amphibious Museum
Picture #6 = Same As #5 In Private Collection - but now back at Pendleton

-----------------------------------
Edit:
-----------------------------------

Upon further research, it would appear as though the one in picture #4 on the web page I linked to is actually designated as LVA-X1. If you look closely at the picture on the page linked to by Neil, you can see that this is also stenciled on the side of this vehicle. In conclusion, I think that it would be safe to say that this specific vehicle is actually an LVA-X1 and not an XM-759.

This would fit with my having heard that there are only two actual XM-759 prototypes in existence: The one that is at Pendleton, and the other similar looking one which was also linked to by Neil which resides at Quantico.

JimWeb

I'm even more convinced that the one at Pendleton is the Army prototype...

blackdog · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 11, 2010 Posts: 58

I'm not going to say it is or it isn't because I don't know for a fact but considering the fact that it was in the Amphib Museum on Pendleton (as early as 1975) I'd personally lean towards it being one of at least two XM-759 prototypes that the USMC had. Remember, there were supposedly 7 XM-759's made. Plenty to go around for everyone.

Here's what that website has to say, courtesy of Google Translate...

1 - Airoll: The first working prototype simplified called Airoll (photo 3), was established in June 1962 by Ingersoll Kalamazoo Division of Borg Warner and the U.S. Navy. After testing, this system was considered the first vehicle outperforming the wheel and the caterpillar. Sixteen tires 'Terra Tires' attached to chains driven by large diameter sprockets rotate freely. The tires were less pressed between the 'docks' and the ground. To move through the deep mire half liquid, swamps, snow and sand, the rollers do not turn over but always moving in translation and act as wheels. It was reported that the device behaved better than any known vehicle in the mud almost liquid. Powered by a Chrysler V8 engine and weighing 9 T, it could travel at 50 km / h on land and 16 on the water.

Photo 4 - Airoll 1, 2nd prototype in 1965.

2 - Airoll I: The Borg-Warner Corporation and the U.S. Marine Corps in 1965 presented a more elaborate version, closer and more practice, I Airoll (photo 4), equipped with 13 tires on each side, mud guards , position lights and windshield. With a capacity of half a tonne and tested extensively on 15 000 km, this achievement was rather successful. With excellent skills on soft soil and water, the lateral stability and reliability should be improved. Known also as the 'Water Skipper' or LVA-X1, it is to our knowledge a copy to the USMC Museum in Quantico, Maryland.

Photo 5 - XM 759 at Pendelton Museum around 1975.

Photo 6 - XM 759 in a Museum of Northern California around 2005.

Photo 7 - XM 759 in tests in 1967.

Photo 8 - XM 759 in tests in 1967.

3 - XM 759: The U.S. Army took the idea and ordered the XM759 Marginal Terrain Vehicle (photos 5-6-7-8) to Pacific Car and Foundry. It weighed 4.2 tonnes for a payload of 1.4 tonnes, length 6.2 m, 2.8 m wide and 17 tires on each side.

USMC bought 7 more better equipped to test and manufactured between February and March 1967. The XM 759 could carry 14 fully equipped men plus 2 crew. The features are: ground pressure 0.15 kg/cm2, tank 223 liters and 260 km of autonomy, maximum gradient 60% and reached 30% Devers, crossing a vertical wall of 0.9 m and a trench 2 m wide. It was self troubleshoot with capstan heads bolted on the front sprockets or rear wheels. The engine was located behind the cab.

Note: The vehicle in photo #5 and #6 are the same one. I know this for a fact.

JimWeb

- blackdog

Upon further research, it would appear as though the one in picture #4 on the web page I linked to is actually designated as LVA-X1. If you look closely at the picture on the page linked to by Neil, you can see that this is also stenciled on the side of this vehicle. In conclusion, I think that it would be safe to say that this specific vehicle is actually an LVA-X1 and not an XM-759.

That one is an Airoll 1 prototype - they preceded the XM759 series and possibly was designated LVA-X1 but remeber that it may have had that painted on it after it became a museum exhibit. You know what museum staff are like for painting things on vehicles that aren't quite correct

Wink

BTW were those images taken by you?

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