±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 515
Total: 515
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Member Screenshots
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Home
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Downloads
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Statistics
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Member Screenshots
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Member Screenshots
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Photo Gallery
106: Downloads
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Member Screenshots
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: CPGlang
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Photo Gallery
131: CPGlang
132: Community Forums
133: Your Account
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Downloads
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Your Account
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: CPGlang
160: News Archive
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: CPGlang
167: Photo Gallery
168: CPGlang
169: Community Forums
170: Your Account
171: CPGlang
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Your Account
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: CPGlang
182: Photo Gallery
183: CPGlang
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: CPGlang
190: Community Forums
191: News
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: CPGlang
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: CPGlang
204: Your Account
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: CPGlang
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: CPGlang
219: CPGlang
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: CPGlang
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Downloads
229: Photo Gallery
230: Your Account
231: Community Forums
232: Downloads
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: CPGlang
236: Photo Gallery
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Member Screenshots
247: Community Forums
248: Member Screenshots
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: CPGlang
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Statistics
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: CPGlang
283: Downloads
284: Photo Gallery
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: CPGlang
297: News
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Your Account
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Downloads
319: Community Forums
320: Downloads
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: CPGlang
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Member Screenshots
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Your Account
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Downloads
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Photo Gallery
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Your Account
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Photo Gallery
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Member Screenshots
425: Photo Gallery
426: News Archive
427: CPGlang
428: CPGlang
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: CPGlang
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Downloads
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Downloads
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Downloads
450: Photo Gallery
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Member Screenshots
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Home
459: Photo Gallery
460: Member Screenshots
461: Photo Gallery
462: Downloads
463: Community Forums
464: Downloads
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: CPGlang
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Your Account
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Downloads
480: Photo Gallery
481: Downloads
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Downloads
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: CPGlang
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Photo Gallery
514: Photo Gallery
515: News

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armada Michigan M48 hull with XM66 "D" Turret update
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:18 pm
Post subject: Armada Michigan M48 hull with XM66 "D" Turret update

Over the last few months I have been researching M48A3 history. This had led me to some conclusions which I am presenting here for review and comment.

This is the Armada Michigan tank that used to be on display at the old Detroit Tank Arsenal grounds in Warren MI. She is an interesting amalgam, consisting of what appears to be an M48A3 hull with the "D" model turret proposed for what eventually became the M60A2. Picture courtesy Walter Sobchak.

Armada MI Tank

I have acquired two first edition Tank Manuals for the M48A3 from June and July of 1963. These manuals were written using one of the two Prototype M48A1E2's, Registration Number 9A9551. She is pictured below, the image is from TM 9-2350-224-10, dated 11 JUL 1963.

M48A1E2

Notice she has only three support roller per side. In 1960 Chrysler took six M48A1's and upgraded them with AVDS-1790 Diesel engines and 105mm M68 guns. They were made using many M60 parts. Part of the conversion was to eliminate the number two and four support rollers and upgrading the fender and stowage layout similar to the M48A2.Here is a picture of RN 9A9551 as an M48A1E1.

M48A1E1

In the TM there is a picture showing the casting mark along the right side of the hull. It is located in front of the #5 road wheel arm bump stop. I compared it to a picture of the same spot on the tank in Armada MI. The mark appears to be identical, to include the "R" out of position on the first line. I also noticed the "HEAT" and "SERIES" numbers are the same. I have compared other casting marks from the same producer in the same spot and they do not have this misaligned "R" or the same numbers for either "HEAT" or "SERIES". The weld bead and imperfection also match up.

Casting mark comparison

Based on this casting mark, I am quite sure this hull is 9A9551. A historically significant vehicle in my opinion. She was one of only two prototypes for the M48A3 Tank. This tank was also provided to the USMC for their trails prior to receiving the M48A3. She is featured in "Patton" by RP Hunnicutt, page 222, and in "M48A3 in Vietnam" by David Doyle, page 4 and 10.

What is interesting is she now has the 152mm gun/launcher "D" turret installed. This was one of four proposed turrets initially designed to be on M60 hulls and was installed on M60 RN 9B4770 for a while. That tank also had what would eventually become the M60A2 turret installed, becoming the first M60A1E1.

M60 RN 4470 with "D" turret

Had this program survived, excess M60 turrets would have been installed on M48A1 hulls modified to M48A3 standards and would have been known as the M48A4. In order to install these M60 turrets, the turret ring was modified and raised 2" to accommodate the lower hanging turret floor. Two of these M48A4's were made. One was RN 9A9849, and is well documented in "Patton". I have not found any images or information of the other, to include her Registration Number. In the image below of the Armada tank, you can see a spacer that has been welded to the hull turret ring. Picture courtesy Walter Sobchak.

Turret ring spacer

The only reason I can think of why this was done would be to install a turret with a lower floor than the M48. This spacer may also help explain how this "D" turret designed for an M60 hull could be installed. Would be nice to see the inside of her to know if the floor is still there. M60A2 turrets have been installed on M48 hulls to make targets. The "Franken Tanks" on Fort Knox ranges are good examples. In order to make them they cut the floors off though. In any case, I believe 9A9551 was also used to make the other Pilot M48A4. The turret ring spacer along with her former location at the Detroit Arsenal as a display tank for TACOM helps support this theory. The M60 turrets used for the M48A4 pilots were eventually returned to their original hulls when the M60A1E1 was cancelled, therefore effectively canceling the M48A4.

I can only assume she was used as an automotive test rig or some other "Mule" before retiring. Might explain the diamond plate steps welded on the front slope. My guess is the "D" turret was mated to her for either weight or just to complete her when retired to make a display. Maybe someone thought they were both historically significant to save, or just easier to display than scrapping. Finding a picture of the other M48A4 would really help confirm or discount the M48A4 tie in. Either way, I welcome comments pro or con on my conclusions.

Thanks

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 909
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Armada Michigan M48 hull with XM66 "D" Turret update

Joe, Just wondering if You found any new information on the M48A3, Armada, MI, M48E1, M48E2, or M60 with type "D" turret. I'm always looking for data on pilot model and rare tanks. I have been working on data about the T95 Medium tank series for several years, hope to print it someday. Thanks, Rick Eshleman
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum