±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 736
Total: 736
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Downloads
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: CPGlang
43: CPGlang
44: CPGlang
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: CPGlang
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Photo Gallery
84: CPGlang
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Downloads
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: CPGlang
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Member Screenshots
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Member Screenshots
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Downloads
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Member Screenshots
169: Home
170: Photo Gallery
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Your Account
174: Downloads
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Statistics
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Home
192: Downloads
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Downloads
212: Community Forums
213: Member Screenshots
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: CPGlang
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Home
233: Home
234: Photo Gallery
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Your Account
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: CPGlang
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: CPGlang
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Downloads
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Your Account
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: News Archive
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Statistics
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Your Account
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Statistics
316: Home
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Photo Gallery
321: Member Screenshots
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Downloads
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: News Archive
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Downloads
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Your Account
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Downloads
367: Community Forums
368: Downloads
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: CPGlang
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Downloads
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Downloads
390: Downloads
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Downloads
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Your Account
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Downloads
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Downloads
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: CPGlang
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Downloads
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: CPGlang
439: CPGlang
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Photo Gallery
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: CPGlang
467: Photo Gallery
468: Your Account
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Downloads
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Downloads
484: Home
485: Photo Gallery
486: CPGlang
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: CPGlang
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Your Account
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Downloads
499: Home
500: Downloads
501: Statistics
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: CPGlang
506: Home
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Downloads
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Home
521: Your Account
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Member Screenshots
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: News Archive
533: Photo Gallery
534: CPGlang
535: Community Forums
536: News Archive
537: CPGlang
538: Community Forums
539: Downloads
540: Home
541: CPGlang
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Member Screenshots
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: CPGlang
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Photo Gallery
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Member Screenshots
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Community Forums
568: CPGlang
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: CPGlang
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Photo Gallery
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: CPGlang
601: Photo Gallery
602: Downloads
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Photo Gallery
609: Home
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Statistics
618: Home
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Member Screenshots
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Photo Gallery
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Supporters
636: Statistics
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Photo Gallery
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Photo Gallery
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Home
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Downloads
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: CPGlang
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Home
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: CPGlang
671: Community Forums
672: Downloads
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Photo Gallery
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Photo Gallery
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Downloads
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Photo Gallery
698: Home
699: CPGlang
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Downloads
704: Home
705: Community Forums
706: Photo Gallery
707: Home
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Home
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Home
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Downloads
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Photo Gallery
725: Member Screenshots
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Photo Gallery
730: Community Forums
731: Home
732: Community Forums
733: Photo Gallery
734: Home
735: Community Forums
736: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:48 pm
Post subject: M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

I was going through Port Deposit, MD and stopped at the VFW to photograph this donation from Aberdeen Proving Ground. It definately was a range target and clearly shows numerous hits. Serial number 1040. Rick


Last edited by Rick_Eshleman on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

More photos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

At first glance, the C on the rear plate seems to confirm that it is indeed an M48C. However, Geoffrey Tillotson mentions that the C was embossed on the right front side of the hull (typo?), while Hunnicutt provides photographic evidence (more here) that ballistically unsound tanks dedicated to the training role were conspicuously marked on the glacis between the headlight guards as NON-BALLISTIC TRAINING TANKS ONLY (variation: TRAINING TANK NON-BALLISTIC). Said welded warning seems to be absent from the tank in your pictures.
Could it be a variation of the M48C marking system, or something else entirely?

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.


Last edited by Costas_TT on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Costas,
I saw several early M48C tanks at the M88 recovery range(in the 1980's), some had a welded warning, others did not. If you read page 114 "US Military Vehicles, by Fred Crismon "120 early M48's had hulls that were ballistically deficient, and were designated M48C tanks for training only" but not mentioned is did they all have the warning weld on the hull? This Tank is SER 79, so it would fall into the first 120 built, and you're right it has no warning weld. Best way to check this out would be get permission to enter the tank, check data plate. Let me know what you think. Rick
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

All sources mention 120 early production (i.e. Chrysler TC cupola and small driver's hatch) M48s, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were the first 120 tanks produced. Of the three authors (Hunnicutt, Crismon and Tillotson), the latter postulates that mild steel might have been used and the tanks intended for training from the start - obviously contradicting the other two, who clearly mention that these early hulls were "ballistically deficient". The problem is that the specific batch, serial ranges and all, is not identified.
And then there is this:

Note serial number visible under MG cradle and ammo box...

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

BREAKING NEWS: I now have definitive proof that the C in the octagon did not apply to the M48C specifically. We know for a fact that all M48C tanks were retained stateside, correct?
Now, check out this photo of a Greek M48.

Circled in red for convenience.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Then there is the Aberdeen Proving Ground "Frankenstein" Tank. I found these all around the base. Ordnance school was great with these. They remove the turret, then later place it onto same model hull, but a different tank! The most prominent example of this was the M60A3 TTS which was displayed in the field during the 1990s!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:57 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

So, Serial Number 79 is an APG Franken-Tank?

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

The "C" inside the octagon is not a designator for M48C or even related to the serial number.

What you have is the foundry's casting number/data for that particular piece they made. The "SER" refers to the series of castings made. So you will find the same number on different tanks. M48's castings were made by numerous foundries and this particular marking belongs to American Steel from East Chicago Indiana from the 1950's. Depending on who made the casting the hull could be in sections welded together or as one piece with the floor plates welded in. The M48C deficiency was in the upper hull by the driver's vision blocks, being the armor was too thin there. Externally the difference between M48 and M48C are none (I haven't found one yet) other than the bead weld warning across the front, since the only correction was in the casting process and it only applies to the hull.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

It might be a "frankentank", only way to find out would be to check the hull and turret plates to see if they match. I did dig out my M48 files, particularly TM9-500 page 23-26 where it is stated: "The M48C is similar in appearance to the M48. The difference being in the strength of the armored hulls. The M48C is not suitable for combat and is to be used for training purposes only. The letter "C" is embossed in the right front hull meaning the tank is "non-ballistic.". The M48C was also classified as Limited Standard at the time.
I also note page 103 of Hunnicut's book where "120 tanks with ballistically deficient hull castings" is mentioned and the photo mentioning the wording doesn't match the weld metal marking. So maybe some were marked properly and others not? It would be interesting to find out if all were sequentally built 1-120, or if they were just groups erratically produced?
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

The wording originally specified was "NON-BALLISTIC TRAINING TANK ONLY".
The non-matching wording was "TRAINING TANK NON-BALLISTIC", as seen in the photo on the link I posted and the picture in Hunnicutt's book.
And in all the excitement I forgot the difference between serial and casting numbers. Thanks go to Joe for the correction.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:56 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

I got [tank] SN 1040 off the front tow lugs - always the first place to look.

The turret on this tank was also an ASF-C product, unfortunately the serial was obliterated by glancing fragment or projectile hit.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Kurt,
M48 Tank it is. I couldn't find the SN on front tow hook, but did find it on the rear of the tank. I didn't have time today to climb in to see the manufacture plates, but maybe next trip. I looked all over front for "C" stamping, or weld(none found), so i must be a regular production model. Thanks, Rick
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:15 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Since Ser = series, I guess this would mean the M48A1 tank at Oak Orchard, DE has a different SN? I looked at tow lugs and rear left hull but paint is too thick to see any numbers. Photos from the other day. Rick
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum