±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 754
Total: 754
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Photo Gallery
10: Photo Gallery
11: Your Account
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Downloads
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Downloads
55: Community Forums
56: Your Account
57: Photo Gallery
58: Downloads
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Your Account
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Your Account
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Downloads
78: Statistics
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: News Archive
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Statistics
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Downloads
95: Community Forums
96: Member Screenshots
97: Community Forums
98: News
99: Downloads
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: CPGlang
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: CPGlang
119: Community Forums
120: CPGlang
121: Treasury
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Member Screenshots
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Downloads
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Member Screenshots
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Downloads
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Statistics
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Downloads
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Statistics
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Downloads
218: News
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Statistics
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Your Account
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: CPGlang
253: Downloads
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Your Account
273: Photo Gallery
274: Downloads
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Photo Gallery
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Statistics
284: Community Forums
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Your Account
288: CPGlang
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Photo Gallery
295: Photo Gallery
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: CPGlang
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Member Screenshots
306: Downloads
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Member Screenshots
310: Photo Gallery
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: CPGlang
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Downloads
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Photo Gallery
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Member Screenshots
362: Your Account
363: Photo Gallery
364: Statistics
365: Home
366: Home
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Downloads
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Downloads
384: Downloads
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Member Screenshots
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Your Account
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Downloads
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Statistics
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Your Account
434: Downloads
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Your Account
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Downloads
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Downloads
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: News Archive
479: Photo Gallery
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: News
483: Community Forums
484: CPGlang
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: News
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Photo Gallery
504: News Archive
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: CPGlang
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Home
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Downloads
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Member Screenshots
584: Community Forums
585: Downloads
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Downloads
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Photo Gallery
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: CPGlang
603: Photo Gallery
604: Community Forums
605: Tell a Friend
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Downloads
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Home
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Member Screenshots
619: Your Account
620: Downloads
621: Photo Gallery
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: CPGlang
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Member Screenshots
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Photo Gallery
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Home
654: Photo Gallery
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Member Screenshots
658: Community Forums
659: Home
660: Photo Gallery
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: News
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Photo Gallery
677: Community Forums
678: Downloads
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Photo Gallery
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Your Account
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Your Account
694: Photo Gallery
695: Community Forums
696: Downloads
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Photo Gallery
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Home
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Photo Gallery
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Downloads
721: Photo Gallery
722: Community Forums
723: Photo Gallery
724: Photo Gallery
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Photo Gallery
728: Community Forums
729: Photo Gallery
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Photo Gallery
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Your Account
739: Photo Gallery
740: Community Forums
741: Home
742: Home
743: Photo Gallery
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Home
749: Photo Gallery
750: Community Forums
751: Home
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
MAP (Military Assistance Program)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:14 am
Post subject: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have done some research at the National Archives on Sherman based exports from MAP (Military Assistance Program). It is by no means complete and leaves a lot of questions since it does not break down what type of Sherman's were exported other than TNKMEM4 or M4A3. I assume most of the TNKMEM4 were probably M4A1 76mm. It also doesn't list M32 which might be included in the TNKMEN4.
I have not yet found any exports prior to 1963. There are some surprises like Indochina (Vietnam) and Tunisia getting M74 ARV's

Country Year Amount

M4 Sherman

Belgium 1963 85
Portugal 1963 19
Denmark 1963 8
France 1963 1484
Indochina 1963 2
Iran 1963 110
Italy 1963 28
Netherlands 1963 98
Turkey 1963 3
Undefined Code 1963 599


M74

Austria 1963 2
Belgium 1963 165
Brazil 1963 3
Chile 1963 3
Denmark 1963 1
France 1963 257
Germany 1963 156
Greece 1963 28
Indochina 1963 5
Indonesia 1963 2
Iran 1963 43
Iraq 1963 1
Italy 1963 118
Japan 1963 15
Libya 1963 1
Netherlands 1963 20
Pakistan 1963 35
Portugal 1963 13
S. Korea 1963 15
Spain 1963 24
Taiwan 1963 7
Tunisia 1963 4
Turkey 1963 168
Turkey 1965 51
Uruguay 1963 1
Back to top
View user's profile
Tichenor
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

These seems very strange to me as by 1963 Belgian Shermans where already obsolete and replaced by M47's. M74 could be correct they where used until the 80's.

Michel

_________________
www.afvregister.org
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

Your information is not correct concerning the dates and numbers.

There is a article written by Hanno Spoelstra about the Sherman tanks in service with the Dutch army.

2 batches where supplied under de MDAP to the Netherlands.
38 Shermans version M4A1 and a batch of 50 M4A1E9, all 75mm

By 1958 all Shermans tanks had been replaced by the British Centurion.

Concerning the recovery versions, I could find no data.
However by by 1968 the Centurion tanks where replaced by the Leopard 1.
So very likely that most, perhaps even all, Sherman recovery variants by then where replaced by the recovery variant of the Leopard 1

MichelK

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

it seems curious to me too, as the website "charsfrancais.net" mentions that the Sherman was used in France until 1965. The M4A4Ts were converted from M4A4s in 1952-1953. Note that the AMX-13 light tank was developed in 1953, and the AMX-30 in 1965, so there was no need of Sherman tanks in 1963 in France.

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.


The Dutch army after the war would not have stripped new tanks for spares.
Direct after the war about 250 Shermans where salvaged/rescued from scrapyard stocks of the Commonwealth forces and these where in a bad condition.

So there was no need for target range tanks also. because enough scrap standing around. Mr. Green

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

The other possibility is that these were giving to the Netherlands to be transferred to another country I.e. Israel
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:33 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...141,217436

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...090,209505
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:56 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I've come across some of these MDAP records and they should be used with considerable caution, as some list what is intended to be delivered, others what is delivered and they are not particularily precise when it comes to the types of vehicles.

Danmark got 8 Sherman M4A3E4 and one M32B1 in 1952, but it is not the first time I've seen the latter listed under M74. In fact, M74 figures in the documents regarding planned deliveries, but apparently you got what was available in terms of recovery vehicles.

I always try to confirm the delivery data in the MDAP records with data from Danish Army Archives to see what was actually delivered.

With regards to the date, my guess is that the document lists what have been delivered up to 1963 rather than what was delivered in 1963
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

- mikek92888
I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.


IIRC there was some change in the military aid program in the early 1960ies when the name changes from Mutual Defense Assistance Program (MDAP) to Military Aid (or assistance?) Program (MAP).
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have been studying the figures of Sherman supplied to the Dutch ..... and still can't figure it out Neutral

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum