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Saumur
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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horrocks
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- the_shadock
The museum has a policy to track down every photo of the backyards/reserves and ask the owner to remove them from the internet.

I have a few scans of the back yard taken about 20 years ago that I was going to post. Does this mean that I should not do so?

They are only overall views taken thru the fence. I think I counted 7 various models of Panther, some just hulls or hulks, and I was going to ask what had become of them.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- horrocks
- the_shadock
The museum has a policy to track down every photo of the backyards/reserves and ask the owner to remove them from the internet.

I have a few scans of the back yard taken about 20 years ago that I was going to post. Does this mean that I should not do so?

They are only overall views taken thru the fence. I think I counted 7 various models of Panther, some just hulls or hulks, and I was going to ask what had become of them.


They can ask, but if such pictures are not demonstrably stolen (copyright violation), obtained surreptitiously during an illegal entry or represent threats to national security Rolling Eyes they would have a very difficult time enforcing such a demand. At most, the photographer, if identified, might have a difficult time gaining re-entry to the facility in the future (if they monitor their visitors). In any similar situation, someone would need to provide me with a very compelling reason why general interest photographs of mine, legitimately taken, should not be shared with the public.

There is a big difference between agreeing, as a matter of personal/professional courtesy, not to photograph some item(s) or areas to a place where I've been granted entry and making a blanket demand after fact not to display photos of a public display simply because it's inconvenient. A good example would be anyone who took one of Bob Smarts "back lot" tours at APG, where photos of certain areas were requested not to be taken...a perfectly legitimate request at a functioning military installation. Something similar came up at China Lake outside the museum area.

It seems to me that the museum is handling this issue very poorly.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

I think one of the reasons is that Saumur tries to make money with whatever they can, and the reserves are part of this business. One should pay 5€ to visit the reserves, which are open once a year. People at the museum think that nobody will visit them if pictures are online.

P-O

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- the_shadock
I think one of the reasons is that Saumur tries to make money with whatever they can, and the reserves are part of this business. One should pay 5€ to visit the reserves, which are open once a year. People at the museum think that nobody will visit them if pictures are online.

P-O


...which just tells me that the museum really doesn't understand it's target market. Armor enthusiasts (the only ones even likely to find online pictures of such esoteric interest) are generally more likely to visit a facility when they've gotten a taste of what's to be seen there.
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wheelsup_cavu
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- Doug_Kibbey
- the_shadock
I think one of the reasons is that Saumur tries to make money with whatever they can, and the reserves are part of this business. One should pay 5€ to visit the reserves, which are open once a year. People at the museum think that nobody will visit them if pictures are online.

P-O


...which just tells me that the museum really doesn't understand it's target market. Armor enthusiasts (the only ones even likely to find online pictures of such esoteric interest) are generally more likely to visit a facility when they've gotten a taste of what's to be seen there.


The same holds true for Aircraft enthusiasts. Seeing a picture is nice but to actually see it in person is a whole different ball game.


Wheels

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TimRoyall
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:36 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

Exactly! There's nothing like a blurry, long distance picture with a half hidden vehicle behind another one to make me go and visit to a museum.

I've driven hundreds, possibly thousands, of miles based on seeing photographs. I once spent an entire day driving to a small museum in the Bordeau area while on holiday in the Dordogne. I even took the kids with me, who actually enjoyed it, but we were away so long my wife thought we'd been kidnapped! But it was worth it to see the actual collection.
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TimRoyall
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:43 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

Sorry, just remembered. Back in 1988, my wife and I were visiting Australia to see some friends and I managed to pursuade her that as well as Sydney and Melbourne, we really also needed to see Brisbane. It was a lovely city and what should we happen to see in the museum but an... A7V. Now there's a surprise!
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horrocks
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- the_shadock
I think one of the reasons is that Saumur tries to make money with whatever they can, and the reserves are part of this business. One should pay 5€ to visit the reserves, which are open once a year. People at the museum think that nobody will visit them if pictures are online.

My photos are so old that I suspect the back lot was a very different place then. I'll post them up when I get a moment.
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Saumur

I haven't been approached by Saumur to take down the pictures I've posted - though I had permission when I took mine, many years ago. It was partly this issue, however, that led to Pierre-Olivier and I not pursuing our plans to update (and fill in the gaps in) the Saumur section of the Preserved Tanks in France book with PO's more recent photo's - along with Saumur's inability to answer our communications.

Preserved Tanks at Saumur

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:10 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- TrevorLarkum
I haven't been approached by Saumur to take down the pictures I've posted - though I had permission when I took mine, many years ago


yes but your photos are quite old.. I took some interior pictures of their M4A1 Duplex Drive and posted them on a French forum, and I was asked to remove them. The Duplex Drive was in an area forbidden to tourists, and of course no one is allowed to climb into a tank, so I understand the request.

P-O

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

See what happens when your efforts become known? No good deed ever goes unpunished....
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clausb
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

- Doug_Kibbey
...which just tells me that the museum really doesn't understand it's target market. Armor enthusiasts (the only ones even likely to find online pictures of such esoteric interest) are generally more likely to visit a facility when they've gotten a taste of what's to be seen there.


Indeed. They got two kind of visitors

- The average tourist that visits the museum as any other "sight" and would only do so because they are in the area.
- Armour enthusiasts that would always try to go there and see their kit live if they can afford it.

Having pictures floating around the internet will not hurt their appeal to either group.
But perhaps they also get some income from people using pictures of their vehicles for books and modelling magazine. That might be an issue, but still, is it better to be alienate the people who would visit and promote the museum as well as buy the publications with the museum photos in them?
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horrocks
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:02 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

The back lot circa 1993













Last edited by horrocks on Tue May 27, 2014 7:16 am; edited 3 times in total
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horrocks
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur











I was particularly interested in the numbers of Panther variants visible, more than on the inventory of the museum now, but I understand from SP that some were dispersed to other collections over the years.
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:12 am
Post subject: Re: Saumur

Great pictures, thanks!

Massimo
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