±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 807
Total: 807
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Downloads
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Downloads
15: Photo Gallery
16: Photo Gallery
17: Downloads
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Downloads
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: CPGlang
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Photo Gallery
40: Downloads
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Your Account
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: CPGlang
59: Home
60: Photo Gallery
61: Home
62: Member Screenshots
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Member Screenshots
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Downloads
85: Downloads
86: CPGlang
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Downloads
92: CPGlang
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: CPGlang
98: CPGlang
99: Downloads
100: Downloads
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Your Account
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Downloads
115: Community Forums
116: Downloads
117: Photo Gallery
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Downloads
121: Downloads
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: CPGlang
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Home
139: Downloads
140: Home
141: Home
142: CPGlang
143: CPGlang
144: Photo Gallery
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Downloads
149: Home
150: Photo Gallery
151: Downloads
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Downloads
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Downloads
180: Downloads
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: CPGlang
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Member Screenshots
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Downloads
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Downloads
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Downloads
254: Community Forums
255: Member Screenshots
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Statistics
267: Downloads
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: News
272: Downloads
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: CPGlang
280: Community Forums
281: Downloads
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Photo Gallery
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Photo Gallery
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Downloads
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Your Account
302: Member Screenshots
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Downloads
309: Photo Gallery
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: CPGlang
315: Downloads
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: CPGlang
319: Your Account
320: Downloads
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Your Account
326: Your Account
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Downloads
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Photo Gallery
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Downloads
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Downloads
360: CPGlang
361: Downloads
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: CPGlang
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Downloads
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Downloads
381: Photo Gallery
382: Downloads
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Member Screenshots
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: CPGlang
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Downloads
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Statistics
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Photo Gallery
422: Home
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Downloads
440: Photo Gallery
441: CPGlang
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Photo Gallery
450: CPGlang
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Photo Gallery
462: Home
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: CPGlang
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Statistics
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: CPGlang
473: Community Forums
474: Downloads
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Photo Gallery
478: Photo Gallery
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Downloads
484: Community Forums
485: Photo Gallery
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Downloads
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Member Screenshots
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Downloads
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Member Screenshots
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: CPGlang
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Photo Gallery
517: Home
518: Your Account
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Downloads
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Your Account
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Downloads
530: Community Forums
531: Downloads
532: Community Forums
533: Downloads
534: Member Screenshots
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Member Screenshots
544: Community Forums
545: Statistics
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Downloads
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Member Screenshots
565: Home
566: CPGlang
567: Community Forums
568: Home
569: Statistics
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Downloads
579: Community Forums
580: Downloads
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: CPGlang
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Member Screenshots
590: Member Screenshots
591: CPGlang
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Your Account
607: Home
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Photo Gallery
611: Photo Gallery
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Downloads
618: Community Forums
619: Downloads
620: Downloads
621: Photo Gallery
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Downloads
629: Photo Gallery
630: Community Forums
631: Home
632: Photo Gallery
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: CPGlang
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Home
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Photo Gallery
650: Home
651: Home
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Downloads
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: Community Forums
663: Member Screenshots
664: Downloads
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Downloads
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Community Forums
671: Home
672: Community Forums
673: Photo Gallery
674: Home
675: Home
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Member Screenshots
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Home
683: Downloads
684: Community Forums
685: Your Account
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Photo Gallery
690: Community Forums
691: Downloads
692: Downloads
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Photo Gallery
707: Photo Gallery
708: Downloads
709: Community Forums
710: Photo Gallery
711: Downloads
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Member Screenshots
721: Photo Gallery
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Photo Gallery
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Downloads
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Downloads
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Photo Gallery
737: Community Forums
738: Photo Gallery
739: Community Forums
740: Home
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Photo Gallery
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Photo Gallery
757: Home
758: Member Screenshots
759: Member Screenshots
760: CPGlang
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: CPGlang
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Downloads
767: Photo Gallery
768: Community Forums
769: Community Forums
770: Photo Gallery
771: Photo Gallery
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Your Account
775: News
776: Community Forums
777: Photo Gallery
778: Community Forums
779: Photo Gallery
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: Community Forums
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: CPGlang
786: Home
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Your Account
790: Photo Gallery
791: Community Forums
792: Community Forums
793: Downloads
794: Community Forums
795: Community Forums
796: Community Forums
797: Community Forums
798: Community Forums
799: Photo Gallery
800: Community Forums
801: Downloads
802: Home
803: Community Forums
804: Community Forums
805: Your Account
806: Your Account
807: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
AI :: Archived
Discussions about the FS2004 game.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  FSXFS2004 :: Archives

Topic Archived View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:22 am
Post subject: AI

Hey fellas, you guys seem like your on top of this sim, is there a rule of thumb when it comes to putting AI aircraft into the game? I d/l and installed and Ai package for Fedex, the planes show up in my plane list as AI planes but I never see them in the game. I also just d/l and ran the PAI package to put the AI into some kind of flight plan, but it always seems like its the same old default planes that I see and hear. Hope you can enlighten this IL-2 guy, thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:45 am
Post subject: Re: AI

Wellll.....From what little I know of it, which ain't much......the Ai planes should also have accompanying BGL files which load into a seperate folder, I do believe. The BGL files are much like scenery files (also BGL type) and essentially define the flight plans, time and places that the new AI craft will use. And, since it's a big chore to enter flight plans for every airport at ever time, you're only gonna find em at certain places at certain times......usually, some kind of airport list and schedule is included in a readme. I downloaded some doggone plane, forget which, that came with AI air tankers for refueling (I think it was a big ol' Antonov). The only trick to it was finding those dang tankers, wasn't easy (still trying).

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Thanks for the info, I'm going to try and find the package again and see if I didn't install something correctly. I really don't remember anything other then the .exe file. Once again Thanks!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Shadow_Bshwackr
Janitor

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 7015
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Hiya Mechy, long time no see... Wink

I have to admit I don't a thing about AI planes or how they work in relation to the game, but we'll find out and post up some info...
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
401RCAF_HitMan
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 26, 2004
Posts: 1469
Location: Ontario, CANADA (next to the beer store)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:22 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Hey Mechy, check out this site "Project AI" for FS2004
project AI

I have also used Afcad to add AI aircraft to FS2004

Hope it helps
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Hiya Bush, it has been a long time since I've posted.... the site looks great !!!
My main game is still IL-2, but I just loaded up my fs2004 and grabbed some decent addons and the game looks really good. Your fs2004 forum seems really active so I thought I might get some expert help !!!
Hey Hitman, thanks for the link.... I did the PAI thing...and it did seem to really up the traffic, but still seems like always a few certain planes. Also, I have yet to see those stinkin Fedex planes that I installed as AI planes. I just thought I was overlooking something simple. As always thanks again for the info
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Hmm...just a thought....where is Fedex HQ based out of? Nashville or something? Memphis? Might take a look there....if the add-on was developed by an "employee" it wouldn't be hard to imagine they'd assign AI flight plans out of their home airport......never know!

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Oh hey! Another thought....(smacks forehead).....didja try looking in your "Saved Flights" section to see if the add-on installed any specific flights for locations and times that these aircraft would be seen? Many do, it's not unlikely this wouldn't folow the same pattern....the developer wants to show off his work after all, usually!

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Shadow_Bshwackr
Janitor

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 7015
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Everyone, I found an AI Tutorial and added it to the CC download section.

To get it: Click HERE!

Hope it helps...
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:41 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Hey Stoopy...I did look in the saved flights and there was nothing there.....so I went and looked in the aircraft folders and there was the readme and it doesnt say it directly but does mention KSDF (Lousiville) which I think they are based out of. So I went there and still didn't see anything....soooo I went back into the folder and found a file called 'aircraft.cfg.APCM.BAK' which might have been the file to tell them where to go. I don't know why it is a 'BAK' or backup file ... unless that PAI program did it.....anyway I wanted to thank you guys for trying to help, don't strain your brains on it.....I'm off to read the tutorial that Bush found and see what that has to say.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Durn! So close.....

Well, if you care to share the name of the package and where you got it, now I'm interested in seeing for myself. You know how it is...want to join in "the hunt" for these bogies....old CFS habits never die.....

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:36 am
Post subject: Re: AI

I have a feeling that it possibly might have worked but I may have screwed myself up by installing the PAI package. I'm thinking that the PAI thingy may have overwritten the fedex flight plan. Well, anyway, I didn't know what other way to post the Fedex file, so I sent it to you thru email.... hope thats ok...its not that big, around 5 megs. If nothing else, I'm getting an fs2004 education Smile .
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:59 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Hey Stoopy .... I used the email under your profile and it got returned. Is there a way to upload it here?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: AI

Well, 5MB probably exceeds the allowed size of my inbox, and most authors don't find it kosher to upload their stuff to other sites without their permission....hmmmm....tell ya what - I should be able to download it from the same place you did, if you can give me a hint what it's called. If it's not somethng that is offered out there for a freeware download, then probably the best idea is to skip it, yeah?

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Mechy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:36 am
Post subject: Re: AI

I'm not sure what the problem was, it did say that email no longer exsisted?? Anyways the files name is Fedexai.zip, and I believe I got it from Flightsim.com.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  FSXFS2004 :: Archives
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Archive Revive
Username:
This is an archived topic - your reply will not be appended here.
Instead, a new topic will be generated in the active forum.
The new topic will provide a reference link to this archived topic.