±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 615
Total: 615
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Statistics
18: Community Forums
19: Your Account
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Downloads
40: Statistics
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Photo Gallery
47: News Archive
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Statistics
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Your Account
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Your Account
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Member Screenshots
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Photo Gallery
104: Downloads
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: CPGlang
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Downloads
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: CPGlang
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Downloads
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Statistics
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: News Archive
157: Community Forums
158: Statistics
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Your Account
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Member Screenshots
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Member Screenshots
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Downloads
211: Home
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Downloads
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Downloads
247: Treasury
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Your Account
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Downloads
273: Community Forums
274: Member Screenshots
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Downloads
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Downloads
332: Home
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Downloads
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Your Account
352: Statistics
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Your Account
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Your Account
377: CPGlang
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Photo Gallery
396: Photo Gallery
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Your Account
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Downloads
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Home
439: News
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Downloads
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: News Archive
466: Community Forums
467: Downloads
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Member Screenshots
473: Community Forums
474: Downloads
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Home
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: News Archive
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Member Screenshots
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Your Account
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Community Forums
499: Member Screenshots
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Your Account
513: Community Forums
514: CPGlang
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Downloads
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Downloads
526: Community Forums
527: Member Screenshots
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Your Account
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Photo Gallery
543: Photo Gallery
544: Photo Gallery
545: Photo Gallery
546: Photo Gallery
547: Photo Gallery
548: Downloads
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Home
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Photo Gallery
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Your Account
577: News Archive
578: Photo Gallery
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Home
583: Community Forums
584: CPGlang
585: Photo Gallery
586: Photo Gallery
587: Photo Gallery
588: Photo Gallery
589: Downloads
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: CPGlang
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Home
603: Downloads
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Photo Gallery
611: Community Forums
612: Downloads
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:03 pm
Post subject: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

I saw a picture of the C27 Spartan and thought it had a striking resemblence to the C123 Provider. Their size and shapes are almost the same. I actually had the opportunity to fly in a C123 back in 1977-78, when I was in AFJROTC in H.S., noisier than a C130 and shook bad too. Rather surprised to see the C123 has a 3,000ft higher ceiling than the C27, as well as a 325 mile longer range. I didn't see a cost on the C27 but I bet its a lot more than the $601,719 for the C123.

C-27 Spartan
Specifications
Primary Function Cargo/passenger transport
Power Plant/Manufacturer Two General Electric T64-P4D engines
Shaft Horse Power 3,400 each
Dimension 74.5 feet long by 34.7 feet wide
Wingspan 94.2 feet
Speed 250 knots
Ceiling 25,000 feet
Takeoff Weight (Typical) 56,878 pounds
Empty Weight 39,500 pounds
Range 1,500 nautical miles
Takeoff Distance 1,500 feet
Runway 1,800 feet by 45 feet


The C-123
SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 110 ft.
Length: 76 ft. 3 in.
Height: 34 ft. 6 in.
Weight: 60,000 lbs. max.
Armament: None
Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800s of 2,500 hp. each and two General Electric J85s of 2,850 lbs. thrust each
Crew: Three or four
Cost: $601,719
Serial Number: 56-4362
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 240 mph.
Cruising speed: 170 mph.
Range: 1,825 miles
Service Ceiling: 28,000 ft.
[img][/img][img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- SFC_Jeff_Button
C-27 Spartan
Specifications
Dimension 74.5 feet long by 34.7 feet wide
Wingspan 94.2 feet
[img][/img][img][/img]


34.7' feet wide independent of wingspan? Unless that includes horizontal stabilizers, I kinda' doubt it....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

Hi Folks!

I agree they look a bit alike, but what is the size of the cargo compartment?

I get the feeling from just looking at the photos that the C27 is smaller.

Isn't the C27 one of two aircraft the Army is looking at to replace the current aircraft? I think it is called the Cepert or something like that. Very small twin engine aircraft.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Neutral

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I agree they look a bit alike, but what is the size of the cargo compartment?

I get the feeling from just looking at the photos that the C27 is smaller.

Isn't the C27 one of two aircraft the Army is looking at to replace the current aircraft? I think it is called the Cepert or something like that. Very small twin engine aircraft.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Neutral


Could you be referring to the C23 Sherpa? These used to be operated by the 10th Military Airlift Squadron (European Distribution System) at Zweibrucken AB, FRG in the 1980's. They were made by Short Brothers, Belfast, Ireland as a sort of improved Short Skyvan. After the 10th MAS was shut down, I believe the aircraft were transferred to the Army NG. One of the problems with the C23 was that the cargo compartment was just too short to handle the P&W F100 jet engine then in use with the F-15 and F-16. The ability to transfer replacement engines between European bases cheaply and quickly was one of the main arguments used in creating the EDS and procurring the Sherpa. Thus, the aircraft proved something of a disappointment in AF service.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- David_Reasoner


Could you be referring to the C23 Sherpa? These used to be operated by the 10th Military Airlift Squadron (European Distribution System) at Zweibrucken AB, FRG in the 1980's. They were made by Short Brothers, Belfast, Ireland as a sort of improved Short Skyvan. After the 10th MAS was shut down, I believe the aircraft were transferred to the Army NG. One of the problems with the C23 was that the cargo compartment was just too short to handle the P&W F100 jet engine then in use with the F-15 and F-16. The ability to transfer replacement engines between European bases cheaply and quickly was one of the main arguments used in creating the EDS and procurring the Sherpa. Thus, the aircraft proved something of a disappointment in AF service.

David


Bingo! That be the one David!

I didn't know the Army had picked those up after the Air Force retired them. I remember when the Air Force went to the Sec. of Dec. wanting him to make the Army give up the C-7 Caribou which he did (I think it was McNamara) . I was very surpised to learn that the Army had a twin engine fixed wing cargo plane. Too short to handle the P&W F100 engines? I wonder if that engine would fit inside a C-7 Caribou?

I have a supervisor who is in an Army Reserve POL supply unit. His unit was called up for duty in Iraq. He has a number of stories about hair rising rides in Army C-23 Sherpas and the tactics the flight crews used to avoid SAM missles.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

I vaguely recall touring a C-7 Caribou that had landed at Bowman Field in Louisville, KY back in the mid to late '70's. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet there at the time. My recollection is that it was a larger aircraft than the C-23, both internally and externally. At that time Kentucky Wing CAP had two other vintage DeHavilland of Canada products, a couple of old U-6A "Beavers".

I was at Zweibrucken AB from 1987-89, although I was with 26th TRW rather than 10th MAS. Zweibrucken AB was deactivated and handed back over to the German government in June 1991. I believe 10th MAS was deactivated at about the same time.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- David_Reasoner
I vaguely recall touring a C-7 Caribou that had landed at Bowman Field in Louisville, KY back in the mid to late '70's. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet there at the time. My recollection is that it was a larger aircraft than the C-23, both internally and externally. At that time Kentucky Wing CAP had two other vintage DeHavilland of Canada products, a couple of old U-6A "Beavers".

I was at Zweibrucken AB from 1987-89, although I was with 26th TRW rather than 10th MAS. Zweibrucken AB was deactivated and handed back over to the German government in June 1991. I believe 10th MAS was deactivated at about the same time.

David


C-7 was smaller, I believe, David. Did the one you saw have radial engines (Caribou) or upgraded to turbines (Buffalo, with some airframe mods also)?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

Hi, Doug. The Buffalo was a similar-looking but completely different bird. The one I walked about in was definitely a Caribou. The Caribou had a span of 95' 7", length of 72' 7", height of 31'8". Max takeoff weight was 28,500lbs. The Sherpa had a span of 74' 8", length of 58', height of 16' 3". Max takeoff weight was only slightly less at 25,500lbs. Don't have internal dimensions for the cargo compartment, but I seem to recall the C-7 looked bigger inside. Of course, my memory was never what it used to be!

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum