±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 808
Total: 808
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Statistics
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Your Account
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: News
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: CPGlang
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: News Archive
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: CPGlang
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Your Account
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Statistics
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: CPGlang
64: Community Forums
65: CPGlang
66: Member Screenshots
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Photo Gallery
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Downloads
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: News Archive
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Home
122: Photo Gallery
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Member Screenshots
137: Community Forums
138: Member Screenshots
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Home
185: Photo Gallery
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Your Account
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Downloads
201: Photo Gallery
202: News
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: News
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: CPGlang
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: CPGlang
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: CPGlang
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Downloads
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Downloads
261: Community Forums
262: Member Screenshots
263: Downloads
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: CPGlang
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Member Screenshots
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Downloads
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Your Account
291: Community Forums
292: Downloads
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Downloads
335: Your Account
336: Photo Gallery
337: Downloads
338: Your Account
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: CPGlang
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: News
350: Community Forums
351: News Archive
352: Photo Gallery
353: Home
354: Downloads
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Member Screenshots
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Photo Gallery
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Your Account
403: Downloads
404: Your Account
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Home
409: Photo Gallery
410: Home
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: CPGlang
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: CPGlang
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Your Account
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Home
453: Member Screenshots
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Home
457: Home
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Home
467: Member Screenshots
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: CPGlang
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Your Account
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Photo Gallery
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Your Account
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Downloads
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Home
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Member Screenshots
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Downloads
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Downloads
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: CPGlang
534: Photo Gallery
535: Home
536: Home
537: CPGlang
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Member Screenshots
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Home
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: CPGlang
569: Home
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Member Screenshots
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Home
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Home
606: Search
607: Home
608: Home
609: Home
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Your Account
615: CPGlang
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Home
623: CPGlang
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Downloads
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Downloads
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Downloads
656: News Archive
657: Community Forums
658: Downloads
659: Community Forums
660: Home
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Downloads
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: Downloads
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: News Archive
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Downloads
681: Home
682: Statistics
683: Photo Gallery
684: News
685: Downloads
686: Downloads
687: Home
688: Community Forums
689: Photo Gallery
690: Home
691: Home
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: News Archive
695: Community Forums
696: Photo Gallery
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Home
706: Photo Gallery
707: Your Account
708: Home
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Your Account
717: Home
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Community Forums
721: Photo Gallery
722: Photo Gallery
723: CPGlang
724: Home
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Member Screenshots
731: Your Account
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Photo Gallery
735: Photo Gallery
736: Photo Gallery
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Downloads
742: Home
743: Community Forums
744: Home
745: Community Forums
746: Home
747: Home
748: News
749: Downloads
750: Home
751: Community Forums
752: Photo Gallery
753: Community Forums
754: Home
755: Photo Gallery
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Photo Gallery
761: Home
762: Home
763: Community Forums
764: Community Forums
765: Statistics
766: Community Forums
767: Home
768: Community Forums
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Photo Gallery
772: Statistics
773: Photo Gallery
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Member Screenshots
777: Home
778: Photo Gallery
779: Community Forums
780: Photo Gallery
781: Community Forums
782: Photo Gallery
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Community Forums
787: Photo Gallery
788: Photo Gallery
789: Community Forums
790: Downloads
791: Community Forums
792: Community Forums
793: Photo Gallery
794: Community Forums
795: Community Forums
796: Community Forums
797: Community Forums
798: Downloads
799: Community Forums
800: Photo Gallery
801: Your Account
802: Photo Gallery
803: Community Forums
804: Photo Gallery
805: Community Forums
806: Community Forums
807: Downloads
808: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:41 am
Post subject: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

more photos from bovington

cheers dennis

community.webshots.com...wbridge555
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Dennis

Thanks for the new photos. Excellent as always.

On the StuG, an interesting detail, is the deflection plate for the Drivers vision port. I had never noticed the before.

Of the two StuGs and one StuH42 here at the Patton, that deflection plate (bracket) is not present.

Would that have been a localized application to protect the driver ?

Interesting,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Don,
I think that modification to the driver's visor is something that was done by the Finns to all of the StuG's that were supplied to them.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Dennis, ditto thanks for the pics.

Hey Don, Gary,
This Type 69 seems to have similar "plumbing" to the Patton Museum's T-72? Remind me what that was for?



community.webshots.com...611PnqHDx#

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Calvin & Hobbs fan here Wink



community.webshots.com...611KYjoMT#

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

- Neil_Baumgardner
Dennis, ditto thanks for the pics.

Hey Don, Gary,
This Type 69 seems to have similar "plumbing" to the Patton Museum's T-72? Remind me what that was for?



community.webshots.com...611PnqHDx#

Neil


I believe I read it was vented from the exhaust to stir up dust, creating a natural smoke screen. I don't know if it was more successful when the vehicle was retreating in reverse. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

It was infact a field fabrication for screening (blowing up sand in front of the vehicle) and it helped 'de-thermalize' the tanks image.

The hot exhaust would alter the thermal image of the vehicle. A desperate attempt at survival, but actually quite ingenious.

...back in the day, Rolling Eyes ... I used to fire all my gunneries using both sights. Not common amoung tank gunners, but I was shown how to do it by one of my NCO's. It allowed me to see both images and to instantly aquire/fire with the better sight picture.

The so called 'super-imposing' technique was misapplied by many of my peers and caused negative results. One had to remember that the technique was 'super-imposed & reticle off set'.

I had to shoot a number of gunneries in exterme heat/ dusty conditions with range fires, so the application of both sights enabled me to aquire and engage targets quickly under unusual conditions.

Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

That's it. Much better explanation. I wonder how well it worked in practice. Don, do you know of any ODS vets that engaged such equiped tanks? Did the thermal image created by the dust completely mask the tank or would there be a hotter spot where the tank is? It would seem that seeing a thermal dust blob approaching, the gunner would fire at the center of the mass thus hitting the target.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

In the early 90's Iraqi doctrine was severaly limited in there battle manuever when fighting from the defense.

The 'mobile defense' was a series of shoot and withdrawls (from unprepared positions) followed by a 'die-in-place' position.

The 'Static Defense' was dig deep, camoflauge, and 'die-in-place'. (no withdrawl or independant survival action.

Deviating from these was (supposedly) a penality of death for the crew.

The exhaust modifications would not be too practical in an offensive engagement. (Tank crew can't see where the hell their going, and the gunner damn sure can't see through the cloud infront of his sights...)

I would believe that this was strictly a defensive survival modification, or perhaps to add in screening the vehicle as it withdrawls ( ala 'mobile defense').

So, with the perspective of a tank crewman, and with a bit of understanding of the Iraqi battle tactics, it would only be for defense.

I may be flawed in my understanding of the modification, but after seeing it first hand, its my best guess...

As for ODS vets,....nothing. Of all the firsthand accounts, I've never heard of this 'variant' ever being engaged. Its possible some may have been, but I haven't heard of any.

Remember,...If it is intact,....then it was captured abandoned.

All opposition was shot up during the advance by air or ground forces.

Sorry for drudging on....
Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:42 am
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

- Dontos
Dennis

Thanks for the new photos. Excellent as always.

On the StuG, an interesting detail, is the deflection plate for the Drivers vision port. I had never noticed the before.

Of the two StuGs and one StuH42 here at the Patton, that deflection plate (bracket) is not present.

Would that have been a localized application to protect the driver ?

Interesting,
Don


Don,

Check this link for pictures of a Finnish StuG with all the wartime modifications:

www.andreaslarka.net/p...31033.html

The rest of the site is well worth checking out as well, excellent run down of the StuG in Finn service.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum