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K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happen?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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geoffsteer
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:18 pm
Post subject: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happen?

Hi Guys-
Found this set of plans while surfing the web, the plans are bottom row, right side:
modelbox.free.fr/photo...index.html
The plans appear to suggest that the K5 could be taken off its railway trucks and placed instead on two Tiger I hulls or, at least, that was the proposal.
Did this ever actually happen? Now this might get me to forget about my problems with available shelf space and just go ahead and buy the Trumpeter Leo!!!
With thanks-
Geoff Steer [;-{/) Shocked
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:41 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happen?

I believe it was a plan in case the rail-lines were cut by bombing etc. Not sure if any Tigers were actually modified in this way...

Neil
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:02 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happen?

That looks like one of those thing that if it ever really happened we would've heard about it - and been building kits of it - a looooong time ago!

I'm highly skeptical that would've actually ever worked. Would've compressed the tortion bar suspension right down to the ground, I'd imagine, unless giant railway guns weigh less than I suppose they do.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happe

I'm with Mike, I doubt the suspension would have held it up even static...and with the already stressed drivetrains, well.....

I can't convince myself that this lash-up could have traversed 10' on marble floors without failing.
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geoffsteer
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:09 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happe

Hi Neil & Doug and Mike-
I am sure you guys are correct about the wieght problem. One obvious question does occurr here though, why would the plans even be drawn up in the first place? I mean why would the proposal be put forward when it was known in advance that it simply would not work? Okay, I realize we have no way of knowing exactly when or by who the plans were done. Could be somebody thought the whole idea just looked interesting without any regard for practicality, still you have to wonder?
Thanks for the input-
Geoff Steer [;-{/)
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Cloudy
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:36 am
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happe

- geoffsteer
Hi Neil & Doug and Mike-
I mean why would the proposal be put forward when it was known in advance that it simply would not work? [;-{/)


One only has to look at their aircraft designs, large panzer designs and V-weapon designs in retrospect and ask "What were they thinking?" Wacky designs do find their way to prototype stage sometimes only to fail in practical testing. Another factor could be just trying to win a contract for your company to milk the government cash cow regardless of the practicality of the design (we'll make it work)... Hmmmm, I believe that it may actually work in much the same manner today with bribery, legal/illegal shenanigans and pork barrel politics contributing Wink


Under the impetus of war or impending war, many avenues of research that seem silly in retrospect may be explored to gain a technological edge. War also tends to bring out the "kook" type of inventor with a zany plan for a war-winning weapon. The difficulty lies in sorting out the coal from the diamonds and committing your nation's scare resources to a dubious line of research. Sometimes the right choices are made, sometimes they aren't...
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happe

- geoffsteer
Hi Neil & Doug and Mike-
I am sure you guys are correct about the wieght problem. One obvious question does occurr here though, why would the plans even be drawn up in the first place? I mean why would the proposal be put forward when it was known in advance that it simply would not work? Okay, I realize we have no way of knowing exactly when or by who the plans were done. Could be somebody thought the whole idea just looked interesting without any regard for practicality, still you have to wonder?
Thanks for the input-
Geoff Steer [;-{/)


From German Artillery of World War Two by Ian Hogg, p. 133:

"A most interesting project was begun in 1943 at the instigation of the army. It was decided that, owing to the increased intensity of Allied air attacks, a railway gun should be developed that was capable of cross-country detours around points at which the track had been destroyed. The gun itself was also intended to carry an integral turntable platform so it could be lowered to the track and the bogies run clear, leaving the weapon ready to fire from the platform with 360 [degree] traverse. This idea resembled the American 14in M1920 railgun, but the idea was then carried further by a suggestion that it should then be possible to partly dismantle the K 5 and transport it across country on special transporters based on the chassis and running gear of the Pz Kpfw VI (Tiger tank). In this, one transporter was to carry the breech mechanism, two were to carry the barrel between them, two were to take the gun carriage and one was to move the platform. The mounting was also to be designed to take either the barrel of the 28cm K 5 or a new 38cm howitzer with a planned range of 25000m(27340yd) with a 800kg(1764lb) shell. The whole project received a great deal of thought and would no doubt have been successfully completed in due course, but it was still in the planning stage when the war ended."

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happen?

Incidentally, this description appears to conflict with the picture referred to in the link - which has two Tigers carrying the entire carriage, gun, etc.



The plan was for no less than 6 Tigers to carry all the parts...

Neil
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geoffsteer
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:10 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happe

Hi Neil-
The oddest part of this whole idea is, why no middle support? Some sort of wheeled platform to serve as the main load bearing support would have likely rendered this wild idea work able. I mean if the Tigers were not called upon to bear the mainweight and were instead only expected to provide the motive power this idea would be somewhat practical. I have to say if six Tigers were to be used to transport a Leo off track, this would hardly be a reasonable/practical method to solve the original problem of providing a method to bypass damaged rail lines! Far easier indeed to just wait for track repair than to bring up six specialy altered Tiger Is!
Oh well, it was a fun modelling thought!
Thanks again for the input-
Geoff Steer
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: K5 Leopold on Tiger I hulls instead of rails, ever happe

Yeah, my comments were for the "as pictured" version. Disassembled and distributed over 5-6 vehicles, maybe....if you're only on beer run to 7-11 or somewhere really close.
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