±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 722
Total: 722
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Member Screenshots
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Your Account
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Downloads
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: CPGlang
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Downloads
57: Community Forums
58: CPGlang
59: Your Account
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Member Screenshots
72: Member Screenshots
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Photo Gallery
82: CPGlang
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Downloads
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: CPGlang
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Member Screenshots
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Member Screenshots
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Your Account
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Your Account
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Downloads
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Photo Gallery
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Member Screenshots
164: Home
165: Photo Gallery
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Your Account
169: Downloads
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Statistics
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Home
187: Downloads
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Home
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Your Account
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: CPGlang
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: CPGlang
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Your Account
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: News Archive
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Statistics
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Your Account
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Downloads
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Statistics
305: Home
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Photo Gallery
310: Member Screenshots
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: News Archive
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Downloads
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Your Account
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: Downloads
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: CPGlang
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: CPGlang
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Downloads
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Downloads
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Your Account
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: CPGlang
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Downloads
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Downloads
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Statistics
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Downloads
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: CPGlang
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Member Screenshots
460: Photo Gallery
461: Your Account
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Downloads
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Downloads
469: Photo Gallery
470: CPGlang
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: CPGlang
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: CPGlang
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Your Account
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Home
502: Your Account
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: News Archive
513: Photo Gallery
514: CPGlang
515: Community Forums
516: News Archive
517: CPGlang
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Home
521: CPGlang
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Member Screenshots
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: CPGlang
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Photo Gallery
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Member Screenshots
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: CPGlang
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: CPGlang
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Home
578: Downloads
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Downloads
583: Photo Gallery
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Photo Gallery
590: Home
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Your Account
598: Community Forums
599: Statistics
600: Home
601: Photo Gallery
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Home
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Supporters
619: Statistics
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Photo Gallery
625: Downloads
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Photo Gallery
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Downloads
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Home
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: CPGlang
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Photo Gallery
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Photo Gallery
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Downloads
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Home
682: CPGlang
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Downloads
687: Home
688: Community Forums
689: Photo Gallery
690: Search
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Community Forums
694: Home
695: Photo Gallery
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Photo Gallery
709: Member Screenshots
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Photo Gallery
714: Community Forums
715: Photo Gallery
716: Community Forums
717: Home
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Home
721: Community Forums
722: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?


Bob,
Just home now. Nope, was only in Berlin with no extra time (though there is now something called the "Allied Museum"...don't know what's up with that). Gotta' get with Jens one of these days and do Muenster, but not for a while, though. Rolling Eyes

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism, Berlin actually doesnt have much in the way of military museums. There is however apparently the Luftwaffe museum there (wingie-thingies):
www.luftwaffenmuseum.d...dex_en.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.


Yeah, but I'm not referring to a museum - I'm referring to the city. While London has the Nelson column and the cenotaph, at least it also has statues of famous prime ministers like Churchill.

Lets see, Berlin has the Siegessäule (victory column), Brandenburg Gate (a victory arch), the Bismarck memorial (complete with an atlas showing Germany's world power status at the end of the 19th century and a woman with a slain panther underfoot, symbolizing the suppression of sedition by the state), and statues of Moltke, von Roon, Frederick the Great, Blucher, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Yorck. No statues of prime ministers or other civil leaders that I am aware of... Closest thing is the Neue Wache, which used to be a guard house, but is now the Central Memorial of the Federal Republic of Germany.

www.theberlinobserver....saeule.htm

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"

Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"


We've gone pretty far OT... But I cant say I agree with that either. In fact, I'd posit that an enforced seperation of the two Germanies would probably have been a greater threat to peace... The resentment that it would have caused, especially in an economically depressed east... The same us (Germans) vs the world (US, UK, France & USSR/Russia) mentality... Calls for Anschluss... Sound familiar?

IMO, getting a unified Germany - and this is the critical part - into NATO was one of the best diplomatic achievements of the post-WWII era. Even Gorbachev realized that a Germany outside of NATO or the Warsaw Pact (albeit falling apart) would have forced the country to reconsider the old security dilemma. Bringing a unified Germany into NATO meant its security was tied with other European countries. And thankfully most Germans today believe this (albeit quite possibly to a fault). This was also helped when NATO expanded to include Poland, so that Germany didnt have to worry about a potentially unstable/unsecured zone to its east.


Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far


Yeah, I am not really concerned about the state of Germany today at least. I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink



As I understand it, the Infanty, during the triangular reset, started using the term Combat Team, were the Armored Divisions used the term Combat Command which I think lasted until the Pentomic Ear (1956-1960). After the Army went through the ROAD reset, three Brigades were standard in all divisions, but units under their control came and went just like they did during the triangle set up. "the Combat Command was the parent of the modern brigade." (Note that is in reference to the ROAD brigades).

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Ref: Evolution and Endurance: The U.S. Amry Division in the Twentieth Century by Richard W. Kedzior

www.rand.org/publicati...MR/MR1211/

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- bsmart


I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil


Well, in addition to the abovementioned monuments, they still preserve the Kaiser Wilhelm Kirche (just around the corner from my usual hotel), which can be construed as a monument to what can happen when things get out of hand. Maybe it's a self-as-victim thing for some, but I hope it continues to be preserved. Somebody might be motivated to ask themselves, "I wonder what happened here?"
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Thats very true... That is a good reminder...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.

If you look at the history of the Marines, they almost always id a division as a division. For example the 1st Division is normally written as 1st Marine Division or for short as the 1st MarDiv. Regiments which they still use are almost always id by the number and the title Marines. For example the 13th Regiment is always written as the 13th Marines which by the way is an artillery regiment.

- bsmart

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment.

I agree because in the case of the 7th Cav, there never was a 7th Cav Division therefor no point of confussion.
- bsmart

The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

The one exception to the rule and always a point of confussion unless one adds the terms "Old Guard" or "Regiment" or "ID". The Old Guard if I understand correctly is the last and only full INFANTRY Regiment in the Army.
- bsmart

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ....

Up to this point I agree, but when I was thinking the 147th was a Division and not just a regiment, I was thinking in terms that came into use after Triangular Divisions were started and standard terms for regiments that were not part of a division were written as 147th Infantry Regiments or as 147th Infantry (Seperate).

Hope this clears up my muddy and confuzed thinking about Army Regiments (WWII and post) and Army Divisions.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Roy_A_Lingle"]Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.
[quote]

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment.


I disgree sir. Not counting the Old Guard, the regiment has almost no meaning after the ROAD reset. I spent four years in an infantry battalion and we always used the term 1st Bn of the 30th Infantry or 3rd ID when talking about our unit. We never used the term 30th Infantry by itself because no one would know which battalion we were with. It was the battalion, not the regiment we were a part of. When learning and teaching history of the unit, it was focused on the battalion and the division histories. Never the Regiment or the Brigade histories.

- Neil_Baumgardner

I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...


I agree with "hearing someone say", but I am thinking about terms I remember being used in written accounts after the start of WW II and up until the late 1960s or so when people started getting lazy and cutting short just about everything. For example the 1st Infantry became 1st ID and things like M-48 tank became M48 tank.

I guess I am still knee deep in mud with this one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Most soldiers will identify themselves using the two or three (or four) digit number that specifies their battalion/regiment. For example, if a Soldier was in 1st Battalion, 77th Infantry Regiment, he would say he is in 1-77 and pronounce it as "One-Seven-Seven".

I agree that someone in an infantry division would say they were in 3rd ID or 4th ID (versus 3rd Infantry or 4th Infantry), but if someone said they were in 1st Armor or 1st Cav, they would definitely be referring to 1st Armor Division or 1st Cavalry Division and not to the 1st Armor Regiment or 1st Cavalry Regiment.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Roy, everyone,
I have to agree with Roy that I've never heard anyone refer to their battalion sized unit as 1st Infantry or so forth, The norm since I've been in has been 1st ID, 3rd AD, 1st CAV, 4ID and etc when it comes to divisions. Seperate brigades were always just mentioned by their number, like 197th, 194th, 177th, 172nd and so forth. Everyone I worked with pretty much knew who they were and what they were. The only exception to the battalion rule was Korea. But then they were refered to as 1st and 2nd Tank (or Duece Tank), not 72nd Armor. As far as unit history we learned the Battalion's, so 1-72 would be different than 2-72's because 1-72 drew theirs from A Company, 72nd Armor and 2-72's was B Company. That was a simpler one, others like 63rd were originally the 745th Tank Destoyer Battalion, so it could get quite confusing. Doesn't help when you PCS every 2 years. To this day I dread some one asking me about my units history, mostly because my memory is a jumble of different history's mixed together from various Tank/Cavalry/Infantry units.

Just my 2 bits in this thread.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Agree with Roy also, though must add to Joe's comments that units like the 199th, 326th and 327th usually had "Infantry" (or Light Infantry, where applicable) attached.

I never heard anyone actually say "regiment" when referring to Cav units like the 17th or 11th. It was taken as given.

Referring to Rob's statements....in the OLD days (meaning VN era), soldiers usually extended that shorthand out to statements like "4th of the 77th" or "1st of the 326th", or whatever, rather than 4-77 or four-seven-seven.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum