±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 611
Total: 611
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Home
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Home
16: Member Screenshots
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Your Account
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Statistics
32: Downloads
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Downloads
52: Downloads
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Downloads
60: Photo Gallery
61: Home
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Downloads
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Photo Gallery
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Home
97: Photo Gallery
98: Photo Gallery
99: Member Screenshots
100: Photo Gallery
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Your Account
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Downloads
107: Photo Gallery
108: CPGlang
109: CPGlang
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Downloads
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Home
143: Downloads
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Downloads
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: News
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Your Account
175: Photo Gallery
176: Member Screenshots
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: CPGlang
182: CPGlang
183: Community Forums
184: Downloads
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Downloads
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Downloads
221: Community Forums
222: News
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Downloads
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Member Screenshots
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Your Account
276: Downloads
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: News
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Your Account
288: News Archive
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: CPGlang
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Member Screenshots
313: Home
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Your Account
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Photo Gallery
329: CPGlang
330: Photo Gallery
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Member Screenshots
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Your Account
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Downloads
353: Downloads
354: Community Forums
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Downloads
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Your Account
372: Home
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: News Archive
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: CPGlang
392: Community Forums
393: CPGlang
394: CPGlang
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Your Account
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Photo Gallery
416: CPGlang
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Your Account
421: Home
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Downloads
428: Home
429: Photo Gallery
430: Member Screenshots
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Your Account
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Home
445: Downloads
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: CPGlang
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Downloads
458: Downloads
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Statistics
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: CPGlang
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Your Account
490: Community Forums
491: Downloads
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Your Account
500: Home
501: Downloads
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Downloads
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Downloads
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Downloads
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Home
521: News
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Photo Gallery
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Downloads
537: Photo Gallery
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Downloads
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Home
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Downloads
566: Downloads
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Home
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Home
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Photo Gallery
609: Home
610: Community Forums
611: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:51 pm
Post subject: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Last night I received an e-mail from Ed Heasley saying they were planning on moving the Elephant this morning. After some soul searching and 'Telecommuting' into work very early this morning to make sure I could afford to take off I decided to take at least the morning off and drive up to Aberdeen to watch and document the effort.

The tow truck arrives


First we push


Then we pull


The HETT arrives


Hooking up the cables


The first tug


Almost there!


Loaded up


We got us a convoy!!


There was one casualty of the move. There was a 4-5' black snake that insisted on climbing onto the tracks and drive sproket. is now 2 1' snakes, 1 2' snake, and a lot of goo!


They left the Elephant on the HETT tonight in the motorpool and will drop it at the Refurb center in the morning.

Two final notes - Ed asked me to let everyone know that I already gave him copies of all the pictures I took today so there is no need to send him any! And I would have had his out an hour ago but Firefox decided to update itself just before I hit submit and I lost the entire message!

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Great pics Bob!

I take it the tracks "rolled" okay? Otherwise I'd have worried about the tracks ripping off, like the Mile of Tanks ones... Didnt they try to use TWO M88s last time they tried to move it for just that reason? Seems like they did it rather easily this time...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:23 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

The background to the sudden change in the elephant's status

As I understand it the Commanding General asked at her staff meting why 'the old tank' was still sitting at the railhead. Dr Atwater explained the long history about not being able to get it moved. Then she asked something to the staff like 'You mean we can't move a tank?' After the meeting the Colnel called the recovery section chief and asked something like 'Chief why can't we move a tank?' The Chief ( a Chief Warrant Officer) said 'Sir we haven't been asked, of course we can move a tank'. In all fairness this has gone on so long the folks involved now are not the ones who had problems years ago.

Anyway The ball got rolling quickly. The Warrants and NCOs checked things like weight and balance, got clearances for a heavy move across base and arranged a base police escort. They were surprised that the Elephant uses an electric transmission (The comment was they had hybred drive 50 years ago? I told them there is at least one other similar vehicle (The T23) in the museums possecion. Rolling Eyes )

This was obviously a well qualified group. There were several Warrants, and most of the rest were E6s and E7s with a few civilians. Several sported Senior Instructor badges on their uniforms. They quickly layed out the planned operation, had an alternative prepared if they had trouble loading like they did last time. While waiting for the HETT to arrive they pulled the Elephant forward and back about 100yards to loosen up the track. The pictures were taken from so far back while they were winching it up because they insisted that everyone not actively involved be further away from the action than the cable was long (just in case Shocked ) Everything went very smoothly, if not as quickly as some thought it could.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:25 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Great pics, great story. I can't wait to see this monster restored.
Back to top
View user's profile
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Thanks for the pictures Bob

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:39 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Really great news !! I'm happy to see this and really hope that this very rare tank will be now better preserved !!

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Are they actually going to work on restoring this one, or did they just wanted to have it moved?

Where did it get moved to? Is is now over by the warehouse or did they just put it in one of the yards?

Great set of photos.

I, too would love to see this one restored.

Any more news on when the Tiger I is coming back??

Thanks for the update.

Chris Neel
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:31 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- jcneel
Are they actually going to work on restoring this one, or did they just wanted to have it moved?


Well they have wanted it moved for years Rolling Eyes It does not have a 'slot' in the refurb schedule at the moment. Right now refurb is working on the Vickers Mk 6 light tank, the Mae West, and the Firefly. The Firefly got it's first primer coat this week so it is occupying the Paint Booth for a while.


Where did it get moved to? Is is now over by the warehouse or did they just put it in one of the yards?


Well by now (He looks at the clock) it should be unloaded outside the refurb shop. It will sit on the concrete pad outside the paint booth (next to the 'Vigilant' SP gatling gun) until they decide to put it in the paint booth.


Any more news on when the Tiger I is coming back??


No update on the Tiger. I am hoping that the 'notification system' that Ed used for the Elephant was a dry run for how I will find out about the Tiger (although I am hoping for a little more lead time). Rest assured as soon as I have any news I can pass on I will let everyone know. But there may be a 'News Embargo' when the Tiger comes back. That will probably be a much higher profile event and there is talk about the Air Force and Ordnance Public Affairs folks wanting to control the announcements. I just hope I don't get completely frozen out of things when the time comes.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:41 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- Neil_Baumgardner
Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil


If it comes in it will come in to the Airfield, which is a restricted area I'm pretty sure. I've told them I still have my GI drivers license stamped 'Flightline Authorized' if Dr Atwater needs someone to drive up to the plane Wink

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:42 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Good point, depends on whether they leave it in the "behind the fence" area... Since its already been refurbed thanks to Mr Wheatcroft, I wouldnt think it would need to go through the refurb facility... So what do they plan to do with it anyway? Park it outside the museum?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- bsmart
- Neil_Baumgardner
Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil


If it comes in it will come in to the Airfield, which is a restricted area I'm pretty sure. I've told them I still have my GI drivers license stamped 'Flightline Authorized' if Dr Atwater needs someone to drive up to the plane Wink


Is coming in by air transport a sure thing? Is there a possibility it could be sent over by container ship? That was one problem when the museum acquired the JagdPanzer IV from the UK. It was shipped over and spent a long time sitting on the dock. During that time the persiscopes and other equipment were stolen. I do hope they fly it directly to APG to avoid that from happening.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I think there are several problems with Sea transport

1) This won't fit inside a standard 8' wide container. That means it has be shipped in a non container ship. Most of thoise today are RO-ROs. But most commercial RO-ROs are set up for consumer vehicles and don't have deck height needed or decks that will handle the concentrated loading. On top of that I doubt the shipping line would want it to be towed across their decks with the steel tracks Smile

2) Liability The combination of large (heavy) cargo and the value of the cargo makes it something that most shippers don't want to touch. I was talking with someone who handles liability for a shipping company and he said that his management would avoid that job like a plague. He said some 'weird loads' like that are done for the PR value (UPS or FedEx shipping animals or museum exhibits for example). He said the North Atlantic is especially troublesome for heavy delicate loads. (If you look at the 'plimsol markings' that all cargo vessels have to show how much freeboard they have 'Winter North Atlantic' requires the most freeboard which equates to the most reserve bouancy because of the rough conditions)

3) Tracking and security - you covered this pretty well

As I said a while back it was already sceduled to be transported on a C-5. The plane that crashed at Dover a while back was supposed to have brought it on the return flight of that trip to deliver equipment overseas. That crash and the subsequent fleet grounding until the cause was determined totally screwed up C-5 flight schedules for the forseeable future so it is a wait and see situation.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

hey bob,
who was surprised to find that the elephant had an electric trans??
the army (among other initials) has/have studied that exact elephant time on and time off for years. you would think that we, not just the u.s., would have developed such a "hybrid" by now. ya, es ist eine Porsche!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I have found tht most troops involved in day to day operations don't relly understand the history behind their profession. There are of course exceptions. The studies and evaluations were archived long ago and the current generation unerstands Diesels as old technology and turbines as new technology, but think of electric generators and motors as used in locomotives

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum