±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 779
Total: 779
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Downloads
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Home
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Your Account
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: CPGlang
37: Home
38: Downloads
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Statistics
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Your Account
57: Community Forums
58: Downloads
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Statistics
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: CPGlang
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Your Account
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Home
79: Downloads
80: Home
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Downloads
85: Community Forums
86: Downloads
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Downloads
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Downloads
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Home
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Home
155: Home
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Member Screenshots
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Photo Gallery
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Home
177: Photo Gallery
178: Downloads
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Downloads
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Your Account
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Your Account
236: Photo Gallery
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Statistics
242: Statistics
243: Home
244: Member Screenshots
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: CPGlang
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: CPGlang
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Your Account
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Photo Gallery
262: Statistics
263: Community Forums
264: Statistics
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Home
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Downloads
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Member Screenshots
291: Photo Gallery
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Statistics
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Home
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Your Account
331: Community Forums
332: Downloads
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Member Screenshots
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Your Account
378: Photo Gallery
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Your Account
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Home
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Downloads
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Photo Gallery
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Your Account
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Member Screenshots
423: Home
424: Photo Gallery
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Home
433: Downloads
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Downloads
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: CPGlang
451: Community Forums
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Photo Gallery
456: Your Account
457: Community Forums
458: Downloads
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Home
466: Home
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Member Screenshots
474: News Archive
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Photo Gallery
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Downloads
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Downloads
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Home
490: Photo Gallery
491: CPGlang
492: CPGlang
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Downloads
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Downloads
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Downloads
508: Photo Gallery
509: Photo Gallery
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Home
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Photo Gallery
534: Photo Gallery
535: Home
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Downloads
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Member Screenshots
552: Statistics
553: Community Forums
554: Member Screenshots
555: Statistics
556: Community Forums
557: Photo Gallery
558: Photo Gallery
559: Photo Gallery
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Your Account
565: Community Forums
566: Downloads
567: Member Screenshots
568: Downloads
569: Photo Gallery
570: Tell a Friend
571: Home
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Home
578: Statistics
579: Member Screenshots
580: Home
581: Community Forums
582: CPGlang
583: Community Forums
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Downloads
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Home
593: Home
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Downloads
597: Home
598: Photo Gallery
599: Your Account
600: Your Account
601: Community Forums
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: Home
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: CPGlang
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Home
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Home
625: CPGlang
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Home
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Treasury
638: Home
639: Home
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Downloads
646: Statistics
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Statistics
652: Home
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: Statistics
656: Downloads
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Your Account
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Downloads
667: Community Forums
668: Home
669: Photo Gallery
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Home
674: Home
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Home
678: Community Forums
679: Home
680: Home
681: Home
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Home
685: Community Forums
686: News
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Downloads
690: Downloads
691: Community Forums
692: Home
693: Community Forums
694: Home
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Your Account
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Photo Gallery
701: Member Screenshots
702: Photo Gallery
703: Photo Gallery
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Statistics
707: Community Forums
708: News
709: Community Forums
710: Photo Gallery
711: Community Forums
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Home
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Photo Gallery
724: Community Forums
725: Downloads
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Home
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Community Forums
736: Photo Gallery
737: Home
738: Home
739: Community Forums
740: Downloads
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: CPGlang
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Downloads
749: Downloads
750: Home
751: Member Screenshots
752: Community Forums
753: Downloads
754: Community Forums
755: Home
756: Photo Gallery
757: Community Forums
758: Photo Gallery
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Home
762: Community Forums
763: Community Forums
764: Community Forums
765: CPGlang
766: Community Forums
767: Home
768: Downloads
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Photo Gallery
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Photo Gallery
776: Home
777: Community Forums
778: Home
779: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Trying to Date Photo & Location
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:31 pm
Post subject: Trying to Date Photo & Location

I'm wondering where and when this was taken? Must have been early 60's? I thought maybe Korea but was the 1st Cav in Korea? Bonus points for IDing unit crest.



SLIGHTLY BIGGER: farm1.static.flickr.co...16e8_o.jpg

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"


Last edited by MarkHolloway on Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

Were kepi hats worn into the '60's? What year did they go out?

Nice ascot! (too dark for cavalry, I'm guessing infantry or arty.)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

I'm thinking the M113 makes it a 1960's photo. I read that the 1st CD went to Nam in '65. This is a permanent building so it must be stateside(?) That would make it pre 1965. I think the 1st CD came out of Benning to go to Nam. Sign on building could be arty. For sure not Cav.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:51 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

I would say it is between 1960 and 1963 based on the track and his uniform and that it is stateside. The development of the airmobile units started in 1963. The 1st had become airmobile by the time they went to Nam in 1965. The 11th Air Assault Division (test) became the 1st Cavalry Division (airmobile) in July 1965.
Shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:41 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

Has to be Korea. 1st CAV DIV couldn't come stateside because they lost their colors in Korea during the war. 11th Air Assault Division left Benning for `Nam. They got reflaged as 1st CAV when they got there. The 1st CAV in Korea got reflaged as 2ndINF DIV at the same time.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

they lost their colors in Korea


Ouch, Ouch, Ouch.

That myth will start a fight.

I'm not 1st CD Alumni, but I'm sure there are some that will take issue with that statement. (Dontos may shed some light on this)

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

I did some checkin'. Looks like 1st Cav left Korea during the Korean War and went to Japan. Stayed there until 1957 then returned to Korea. Stayed there until 1965 when they were relieved by 2nd ID. 11th Air Assault was reflagged as 1st CD at Fort Benning (1965) and 1st CD deployed to Viet Nam.

Occupation duty (Japan) ended August 29, 1957 when, in accordance with a treaty signed by both Japan and the United States, defense of the Japanese mainland was turned over to the Japanese Defense Forces and all U.S. ground forces were removed. The 1st Cavalry Division was ordered to move its colors once again to Korea. The Division continued to serve overseas as part of the U.S. commitment to defend South Korea. During this period the First Team went through reorganizations and fielded new equipment, all while patrolling the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) that separated North and South Korea. The Division also began to field helicopters in the spring of 1963 and train in airmobile tactics. In July of 1965 the First Team was reorganized as the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) and officially activated at Fort Benning, Georgia out of personnel from the 11th Air Assault Division (Test). Their duties in Korea were turned over to the 2nd Infantry Division, and one month later the First Team was in route to Vietnam.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

So, does anyone know when the M113 was fielded in Korea?

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

Who's to say that M113 belongs to 1CD.

Could be it's there to support the range/exercise and was a tasking given to another post unit or the school house, much like we did in Knox. If this is Benning I'm sure there were plenty of them there. I believe it's to early of a time period in Korea to have a structure like that on a range.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

God point, Joe. So when was the M113 fielded Army-wide? That would narrow down the date. For example if the M113 wasn't fielded until 1960 then we know the photo is after 1960.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

Hi Mark!

No earlier than January 1960, no later than September 1965.

Production started January 1960 per Hunnicutt's Bradley book, page 82.

Per Wilbur H. Morrison's The Elephant & the Tiger, page 188, the 1st Cavalry Division (1st CD) elements started arriving in September 1965. Also Shawn posted that the 11th Air Assault was reflaged in July of 1965.

At the time the 11th Air Assault Division (11th AAD) stood up at Ft. Benning, the 2nd Infantry Division (2nd ID) was station there. During the field trials, the 11th AAD only had helicopter based units. Infantry and all other non-helicopter type units came from the 2nd ID. My father was a crew chief on a UH-34 helicopter which was part of an artillery battalion. The artillery part was testing different types of 2.75 rocket pods mounted on those UH-34s.

The 11thAAD and the 2ndID were combined to form the 1st Cavarly Division. 11th AAD colors where retired and 2nd ID colors where transfered to Korea to replaced the 1st CD colors there. In my dad's case, his artillery battalion stood down and he was sent to Germany. Most UH-34s were turned in or remained at Ft. Benning. UH-1s were pulled from all over the Army to max the number of them in the new 1st CD.

About that war story on the 1st CD's colors. I first heard that war story back in 1966 during my first tour in Vietnam with the Marines. The story I heard was that during the retreat from the Chosin reservior area, two U.S. military units lost their colors. The Army's 1st CD and an Marine air support squadron. The Marine unit was put into the line as an infantry, got over ran, and destoryed by the CCF.

I don't know, but after Vietnam, the 1st CD colors were tranferred to Ft. Hood, Texas. If honor WAS lost during Korea, then it was regained during Vietnam.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

- Roy_A_Lingle

About that war story on the 1st CD's colors. I first heard that war story back in 1966 during my first tour in Vietnam with the Marines. The story I heard was that during the retreat from the Chosin reservior area, two U.S. military units lost their colors. The Army's 1st CD and an Marine air support squadron. The Marine unit was put into the line as an infantry, got over ran, and destoryed by the CCF.



July 1950: 1st CAV deployed to Korea from Japan.(Prior to that, over 750 had been 'gutted' to augment 24th ID, leaving 1st CAV short of experienced personnel)

15 July - 26 July: After relieving 21st & 24th ID, 1CD elements committed constant withdrawls. Many were made with little or no NKPA pressure.

This was one of the reasons Gen Walker made his famous 'STAND OR DIE' directive to all 8th Army Forces. This is also concurrent to the establishment of the 'Pusan Perimeter'.


I believe it is from this time period that the 'lost honor' may have arisen.

Additionally, in Nov 1950 in Northern most Korea, the CCF joined in to 'save' the NKPA. 1st CAV elements were 'mauled' during this period. 3/8 CAV suffered 600+ casualties, and basically ceased to exist.

I had read somewhere, that this is the time period that the Divisions Colors were actually lost, but can't seem to find that reference at this time.

Dec 1951: 1st Cav Div is rotated to Japan (Combat ineffective...?)

1951 - 1956: 1st CAV assigned to duties in Japan

1956 - 1965: 1st CAV assigned to DMZ duties in ROK

3 July 1965: 1st CAV DIV (Airmobile) designated at Ft Benning

28 July 1965: 1st CAV DIV assigned to operations in RSVN


I don't know, but after Vietnam, the 1st CD colors were tranferred to Ft. Hood, Texas.


Correct

If honor WAS lost during Korea, then it was regained during Vietnam.


Correct, again

Being a 2nd Generation 'FIRST TEAM' association lifetime member, I actually learned something, trying to collect the info for this 'challanged' (ala JoeD) response.

Hope I haven't bored anyone with all this.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

The story about "Lost Colors" floats around a lot in South Korea and the Pacific. Every time I was in Korea sooner or later some "Know it all" would bring it up to a soldier coming from 1 CD. They even had a little saying, "The horse they never rode, the river they never crossed and the color for what they are". Not true.

According to the Army Web site, Center of Military Heraldry under Lineage and Honors. No colors were ever lost by any Army unit in Korea. The question is raised so often that they actually have it under "FAQ's" on their site. It's hard to kill these myths. Some people might argue that the Army's official line is more likely to put a positive spin on things, especially being it involves an active unit such as the 1CD. Personally I always thought it was envy or jealousy.

Similar story floated around in PACAF about a certain Wing who bugged out leaving all their ground personnel behind to fend for themselves. This particular myth gains credence because they never have been stationed Stateside.



The patch doesn't help either.

Anyone care to guess the unit ? They are still active today.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

- Dontos


...that the 'lost honor' may have arisen.

I had read somewhere, that this is the time period that the Divisions Colors were actually lost, but can't seem to find that reference at this time.

Being a 2nd Generation 'FIRST TEAM' association lifetime member, I actually learned something, trying to collect the info for this 'challanged' (ala JoeD) response.

Hope I haven't bored anyone with all this.


I for one, am not bored. I have always wondered if it was true or just another war story. One thing that surpised later, after I left the Marines and joined the Army, I again heard that same story about the 1st CD during the Korean War.

Let me know if you find anything else Don.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo & Location

From WIKIPEDIA:

During the Korean War, the 1st Cavalry Division began to have rumors about its fighting capability circulate, in part due to a folk song of the time called "The Bug-Out Ballad". It was also rumored that the series of engagements that gave rise to the song were due (at least partly) of the myth that the Division lost its unit colors. Other Army and Marine units disparagingly described the division shoulder insignia as representing 'The horse they never rode, the river they never crossed, and the yellow speaks for itself'. Another version goes: "The shield they never used, the line they never held, the horse they never rode, and the yellow speaks for itself." The incident that apparently gave rise to this false rumor appears to be the Unsan Engagement which took place on 1 and 2 November 1950 at Unsan, Korea. In that battle, the 8th Cavalry, a component of the 1st Cavalry Division, was pushed back from positions in and around the town of Unsan by vastly superior Chinese forces. The regiment was severely battered, suffering heavy casualties and losing a considerable amount of equipment. This was one of the first major Chinese operations in the Korean War and, like the Changjin (Chosin) Reservoir Battle of this same period, it took the United Nations Command by surprise. Considering the circumstances, the 8th Cavalry fought very well, and it has never been criticized for its conduct in this operation.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum