±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 636
Total: 636
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Downloads
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Statistics
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Community Forums
40: CPGlang
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: News
45: Photo Gallery
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Member Screenshots
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Downloads
85: Photo Gallery
86: Home
87: Member Screenshots
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Downloads
97: Community Forums
98: Downloads
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Your Account
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Photo Gallery
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: CPGlang
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: Downloads
124: Member Screenshots
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Statistics
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: CPGlang
145: Community Forums
146: News Archive
147: Home
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Your Account
151: Downloads
152: Your Account
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Downloads
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Your Account
181: CPGlang
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Member Screenshots
192: Statistics
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: CPGlang
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Downloads
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: CPGlang
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Photo Gallery
222: Downloads
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Downloads
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Member Screenshots
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Member Screenshots
260: Statistics
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Home
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Your Account
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Downloads
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Downloads
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: News
315: Community Forums
316: Statistics
317: Community Forums
318: CPGlang
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Home
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Your Account
346: Downloads
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Home
369: Your Account
370: Community Forums
371: News
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Member Screenshots
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: CPGlang
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Home
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: News
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Downloads
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Member Screenshots
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Downloads
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Photo Gallery
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Community Forums
467: Member Screenshots
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Your Account
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Home
498: Photo Gallery
499: Home
500: Downloads
501: Community Forums
502: Statistics
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Statistics
508: Statistics
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Member Screenshots
512: Community Forums
513: Your Account
514: Photo Gallery
515: Your Account
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: CPGlang
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Downloads
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Member Screenshots
534: Community Forums
535: Home
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Photo Gallery
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Your Account
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: CPGlang
552: Downloads
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Photo Gallery
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Your Account
563: Community Forums
564: Home
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: CPGlang
568: CPGlang
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Member Screenshots
575: Home
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Downloads
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Member Screenshots
611: Community Forums
612: Downloads
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Photo Gallery
616: Downloads
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Photo Gallery
620: Home
621: Photo Gallery
622: Photo Gallery
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Photo Gallery
630: Photo Gallery
631: Photo Gallery
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:38 pm
Post subject: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

The following was seen at Schaarsbergen (NLD) in the Arnhem War Museum '40 - '45, Kemperbergerweg 780 (N 52 01.620 E 005 52.352). The guns are in a bad state but at least under a roof. The museum knows it, but don't have funds/specialists to restore/preserve the guns.

I'am absolutely no expert on artillery pieces but (as Massimo said about the Krupp guns) I'am starting to get interested in these old PAK's (and others)

So who can help ID these guns??

Here they come;


Type?


PAK40???


Type?


Type?
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

I am not an artillery guru, but I'll try my best.

First and last are easy. Last is a 7.5 cm Pak 40, First is an Oerlikon 20 mm, can't say the exact model, there were just too many.

Second and third require to go back to the thirties, when Rheinmetall designed a 3.7 cm anti-tank gun, it was state of the art, got some good export sales and was used by the German Army as 3.7 cm Pak 36. Rheinmetall sold the design to Soviet Union, were it was produced as 37 mm first, then enlarged to 45 mm. The soviets even build a 76 mm infantry gun on the same carriage. Usually you can telly a soviet 37 mm from a german gun due to the spoked wheels used by the soviets, but it may be tricky, sometimes even 37 vs 45 mm is difficult to recognize on a picture. See Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._%281-K%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...%2853-K%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...%28M-42%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._gun_M1943

Now, back to our shots, the second looks like a 37 mm to me (or a 45 mm?), but the wheels looks unusual to me. Either it's a kind of wheel I haven't seen before on a soviet gun (again, I am not an expert), or they put a pair of Oerlikon wheels on it.

Third gun is a soviet 76 mm regimental gun for sure.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

BTW There is at least another soviet light AT gun in NLD:
www.com-central.net/in...8&start=15

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo
About the Russian Gun with the strange wheels.
The person in the museum who is supposed to be the weapons expert , is an acquaintance of me.
He told me last week that the gun is 4,2 cm ,but maybe I didn't hear it well and he meant maybe 4,5 cm.
About the wheels. They indeed don't belong to the gun ,but the original spoked wheels are standing against the wall at the back of the gun. ( not noticible on the pic )

Walter
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo
The third gun is a German Infanterie Geschütz 7,5 cm
That acquaintance showed me the papersfor registration.
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Thanks a lot Walter! I was off-track thinking about soviet guns. They were germans, and very rare models. That's explain the wheels. Shame on me Crying or Very sad

So the anti-tank (second shot) is a rare 4.2 cm Pak 41. A conical gun, I've never seen one myself. See here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.2_cm_Pak_41

The infantry gun is another rare one, an 7.5 cm Infanteriegeschütz 37. I forgot it has a peculiar muzzle brake! See:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...C3%BCtz_37

Folks, those two pieces are *very* exciting. Please try to take a full walkaround set of pictures on both of them whenever the opportunity arise. I would love to get a few dozens shots of both.

Many thanks to both Lesley and Walter

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo
Maybe some misunderstanding in the second gun ( with strange wheels )
The 4,2 cm is correct allthough is's not German but Russian
Is that possible or is it indeed 4,5 cm instead ?
I shall take some more pics for you this week.
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Some additional info on the third gun ( the 7,5 cm Infantery Geschütz ).
The right leg is replica and the barrel is not the original one.The original that was on it when they got the gun was blown up,and therefore replaced by another barrel.
It is also missing the breech.
Inside the museum is another ( blown up ) barrel with the muzzlebreak on it .
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

- Walter
Massimo
Maybe some misunderstanding in the second gun ( with strange wheels )
The 4,2 cm is correct allthough is's not German but Russian
Is that possible or is it indeed 4,5 cm instead ?


If it's soviet it's 45 mm. A german 4,2 cm would be almost too good to be true Crying or Very sad
Check Wikipedia's links I posted to see the soviet gun


- Walter
I shall take some more pics for you this week.


Thanks. No need to hurry up, I will be on holyday for the first half of august and may not be online during that period

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

It would not supprise me if it turns out to be an German 42mm PaK

Because the 7,5 cm Infantery Geschütz they have is the still only one I know still existing (and the barrel of another one lying inside the building, Walter know's more Wink )
I have been trying to find some info about it, exisiting or WW2 reference, however there is hardly anything thing that can be found
We have seen this one before here:
www.com-central.net/in...ic&t=12377

Almost forgot, the wheels are from an German halftrack
Because they are rather small, I think an SdKfz 11

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:10 am
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo,

because of your remark about the special/rare guns, I uploaded the picture's I have to my photobucket album

s1015.photobucket.com/...re%20guns/

uploaded picture's of:
- 75mm infanterie geschutz 37 (Schaarsbergen)
- 45 mm anti-tank gun M1937 (53-K)(Overloon)

Warning: all picture's are original size, so size range from 800kb to 3Mb

They are marked, if some one would like to have an "clean" copy let me know Cool

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

I got some additional pics of the 7,5 cm Infanterie Geschütz.
They are not very good but you can see how the gun looks from the back.

Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

And some additional pics of the Soviet 45 mm Gun
[img]

And the wheels what originaly belonged to this gun
www.mijnalbum.nl/Grote....jpg[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Thanks Walter, those wheels match the 45 mm

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum