±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 847
Total: 847
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Member Screenshots
24: Community Forums
25: Member Screenshots
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Statistics
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Downloads
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Home
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Your Account
54: Photo Gallery
55: Home
56: Home
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Member Screenshots
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Downloads
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: CPGlang
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Member Screenshots
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: CPGlang
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Downloads
105: Community Forums
106: Your Account
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: CPGlang
110: Photo Gallery
111: Member Screenshots
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Downloads
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Downloads
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Member Screenshots
150: Home
151: Home
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Downloads
163: News
164: Member Screenshots
165: Home
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Statistics
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Member Screenshots
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Member Screenshots
184: Photo Gallery
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: News Archive
189: Home
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Member Screenshots
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Member Screenshots
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Downloads
207: Downloads
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Statistics
213: Photo Gallery
214: Home
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Downloads
222: CPGlang
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: News
227: Home
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Statistics
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Downloads
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Home
250: Your Account
251: Downloads
252: Home
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Downloads
280: Home
281: Home
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Photo Gallery
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Statistics
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: News Archive
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Statistics
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Member Screenshots
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Downloads
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Member Screenshots
325: Your Account
326: Home
327: Contact
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: CPGlang
333: Community Forums
334: Member Screenshots
335: Home
336: Statistics
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Home
340: News
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: News
346: Community Forums
347: Downloads
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Member Screenshots
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Downloads
355: Home
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: News Archive
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Your Account
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Photo Gallery
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Your Account
384: Downloads
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Downloads
401: News Archive
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Downloads
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Home
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: CPGlang
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Downloads
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Your Account
435: Downloads
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Member Screenshots
440: Downloads
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Photo Gallery
457: Home
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Home
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Your Account
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Supporters
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Downloads
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Downloads
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Downloads
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Member Screenshots
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Member Screenshots
529: Downloads
530: Downloads
531: CPGlang
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Downloads
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Home
559: Home
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Downloads
565: Your Account
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Home
572: Community Forums
573: Downloads
574: Downloads
575: Downloads
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Photo Gallery
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Downloads
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Home
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Downloads
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Home
620: Home
621: Your Account
622: CPGlang
623: Community Forums
624: Photo Gallery
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Member Screenshots
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Member Screenshots
644: Photo Gallery
645: Home
646: News Archive
647: Home
648: Home
649: CPGlang
650: Photo Gallery
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Home
656: Home
657: Community Forums
658: Photo Gallery
659: Community Forums
660: Downloads
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Downloads
664: News
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Photo Gallery
671: Home
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Home
679: Photo Gallery
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: News
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Photo Gallery
686: Community Forums
687: Member Screenshots
688: News Archive
689: CPGlang
690: News
691: Community Forums
692: Member Screenshots
693: Community Forums
694: Photo Gallery
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Downloads
698: Community Forums
699: Downloads
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Downloads
704: Photo Gallery
705: Photo Gallery
706: CPGlang
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Home
721: Photo Gallery
722: Community Forums
723: Downloads
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Photo Gallery
727: Community Forums
728: Home
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Photo Gallery
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Search
739: Community Forums
740: Downloads
741: Community Forums
742: Your Account
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Photo Gallery
748: Community Forums
749: Photo Gallery
750: Photo Gallery
751: Member Screenshots
752: Photo Gallery
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Photo Gallery
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Member Screenshots
760: Photo Gallery
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Community Forums
764: Downloads
765: Member Screenshots
766: Your Account
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Photo Gallery
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Downloads
773: Community Forums
774: Photo Gallery
775: Community Forums
776: Home
777: News Archive
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Photo Gallery
782: Photo Gallery
783: Community Forums
784: Photo Gallery
785: Community Forums
786: Downloads
787: Home
788: Community Forums
789: Home
790: Community Forums
791: Your Account
792: Community Forums
793: News
794: Community Forums
795: Community Forums
796: Photo Gallery
797: Community Forums
798: Community Forums
799: Community Forums
800: CPGlang
801: Photo Gallery
802: Home
803: Home
804: Community Forums
805: CPGlang
806: Community Forums
807: Community Forums
808: Home
809: Member Screenshots
810: Community Forums
811: Member Screenshots
812: Community Forums
813: Home
814: Home
815: Community Forums
816: Home
817: Community Forums
818: Community Forums
819: Photo Gallery
820: Community Forums
821: News Archive
822: Photo Gallery
823: Photo Gallery
824: Community Forums
825: Photo Gallery
826: Community Forums
827: Community Forums
828: Home
829: Photo Gallery
830: Community Forums
831: Photo Gallery
832: Community Forums
833: Community Forums
834: Community Forums
835: Statistics
836: Community Forums
837: Community Forums
838: CPGlang
839: Community Forums
840: Community Forums
841: Photo Gallery
842: Downloads
843: Community Forums
844: Home
845: Photo Gallery
846: Community Forums
847: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:30 pm
Post subject: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

From Stars & Stripes. Love the quote at the end: “For soldiers who haven’t been on a tank in two to three years it (the hybrid threat exercise) is good because we get back to doing the job we enlisted in the Army for,” he said.

www.stripes.com/news/a...s-1.112354
Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'
By Seth Robson
Stars and Stripes
Published: July 26, 2010
Image_12043445.jpg
M1A1 Abrams tanks from 1-72nd Armor Regiment line up in preparation to assault a town during Warrior Focus, a training exercise at the Combined Arms Collective Training Facility at Rodriguez Live Fire Complex, South Korea. The Army has directed its commanders to start training its soldiers on hybrid threats, which means soldiers will now prepare not only for counterinsurgencies, but for conventional wars as well.
Christen Best/U.S. Army

GRAFENWÖHR, Germany — After nearly a decade of fighting insurgents, the Army is shifting its training to focus more on “hybrid threats” — in which an enemy uses a combination of conventional and unconventional warfare.

Since the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began, Army units have been training for counterinsurgency operations, according to a Joint Multinational Training Command newsletter. But with the U.S. preparing to withdraw its combat troops from Iraq, Army leaders are directing their commanders to conduct “full-spectrum” field exercises, which would include tanks, artillery and the other conventional equipment that has not been used much in the current wars.

Col. Frank Zachar, commander of the Grafenwöhr-based 172nd Infantry Brigade, described a hybrid threat as an enemy with a greater capability than the insurgents U.S. forces have been battling in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Army Secretary Gen. George Casey said a good example of a hybrid threat is Hezbollah, the Lebanese militia whose aim is to eject Israeli forces from the occupied territories in Israel.

“It’s a mix of conventional, irregular, terrorist and criminal capabilities that are organized and employed asymmetrically. That’s what we’re going to see,” Casey said during a speech in May at the African Land Forces Summit.

Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution specializing in defense and foreign policy, said a hybrid conflict in a place such as Iran or North Korea might mix insurgency with conventional forces and even weapons of mass destruction.

And while the Army must continue to focus on training soldiers for deployments to Afghanistan, “our military overall does not have the luxury of ignoring other possible threats and concerns.”

“We haven’t really trained for this kind of conflict, ever,” O’Hanlon said.

Yet, one Defense Department official said, America’s dominance in conventional warfare is an incentive for its enemies to use nontraditional tactics to undermine U.S. strengths and exploit its weakness.

“Preparing for this operating environment will pull the Army, and the military writ large, in two very different directions,” said Michele Flournoy, undersecretary of defense for policy.

On the one hand, the United States must be ready for irregular warfare, in which combatants blend in with civilian populations and use roadside bombs, suicide bombs and similar tactics, she said at an Army Leader Forum at the Pentagon last year, according to a DOD release.

Meanwhile, she said, the U.S. must remain prepared to deal with high-end threats, too.

To illustrate this concept, Flournoy described a scenario in which rising regional powers and rogue states use highly sophisticated technologies to deny U.S. access to critical regions and to thwart its operations. These tactics range from anti-satellite capabilities, anti-air capabilities and anti-ship weapons to weapons of mass destruction and cyber attacks.

The 172nd Infantry Brigade has been ordered by the Army to devote some of its current dwell time between combat deployments to conduct these “hybrid threat” field exercises, Zachar said.

To that end, the Joint Multinational Training Command in Hohenfels is retraining its trainers, known as the opposing forces, to “replicate the entire span of threats required” for such an exercise, according to the newsletter.

The 172nd’s public affairs officer, Maj. Joseph Buccino, said a hybrid warfare exercise would likely involve enemies comprised of a simulated conventional force equipped with tanks and artillery as well as insurgents blending into a population of civilian role-players.

The soldiers in the 172nd are excited about the training, Zachar said.

“We’re looking forward to a threat that will span the entire spectrum of conflict,” he said of the exercise. “The exciting part of this is we are going to be able to operate as a heavy brigade using all our offensive and defensive capabilities.”

The 172nd has units that can fight as either light or heavy forces, he said.

The soldiers, who spent their last deployment training Iraqi security forces and patrolling in heavily armored Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, are ready to climb back in their tanks and Humvees.

“Many of our soldiers who came into the Army to be a tanker or an artilleryman relish the opportunity to train and operate on these systems,” he said.

Sgt. Maurice Mack, 26, of Trenton, N.J., a tanker serving with 172’s Company C, 3rd Battalion, 66th Armor Regiment, said he spent two deployments to Iraq patrolling in a Humvee as a light infantryman but did intensive tank training while serving in South Korea from 2007 to 2008.

“For soldiers who haven’t been on a tank in two to three years it (the hybrid threat exercise) is good because we get back to doing the job we enlisted in the Army for,” he said.
Back to top
View user's profile
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

And I thought the article was going to be about combatting Toyota Prius VBIED's!

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

I have some very heated comments I could make on how we got to this point,

But without going into detail, all I can say is "It's about time"

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

- Joe_D
I have some very heated comments I could make on how we got to this point,

But without going into detail, all I can say is "It's about time"


Amen Brother !!


A novel concept,.....Armor crewmen training on Tanks ?! Shocked

I'll bet someone got a 'bullit comment' on his OER for THAT ONE !!! ?? Rolling Eyes

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

Like our old company motto said " Death before Dismount".
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

- tanker2010
Like our old company motto said " Death before Dismount".


An armored crewman who expressed that attitude in my outfit would have been considered worse than useless.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

"Death before Dismount" was the Mantra of Tank Battalions for most of my career and at times I subscribed to it. Unfortunately it is what created those tankers that were not even trained/Qualified on M16's which led to the "TWAT" nickname.

Tanker Without A Tank = Useless.

Cold War and the Post '73 conflict caused a major rethinking of the amount of Armored forces needed, so in order to build them up rapidly we created "Armor Specialists". Troops with no basic Infantry/Rifleman Skills. I was one of those troops and if it wasn't for being assigned to a CAV unit after graduating, I would've kept that mentality(Never touched an M16 until then). During the 80's/90's, especially after "Desert Storm" , the prevalent thinking was Mechanized/Armored was the way to go. That's how the Infantry got stuck with 11M's, or as we called them (So did the 11B's) Baby/Wanna be tankers. Guys who because of the "M" ID forgot what it was to be a "Grunt". School House at Benning recognized this and eventually eliminated that MOS, Remember, 19E was 11E at one time, so unlike many on this forum, I supported the merging of the Armor School with Infantry at Benning, but 8 years ago I would've never said that. Nothing wrong with being "True" to your calling. I am a "Tanker" first, always have been, always will. But I recognized that having those basic infantry skills made me a much better tanker, especially after OIF (First hand experience/eye opener). Much like having mechanical skills beyond -10 level do. My troops/peers would give me strange looks when I would extol the benefits of knowing basic infantry skills as a PSG, but this was pre 9/11.

My biggest fear was the Armored forces would now forget how to tank, since the pendulum started swinging way to far the other way. I saw this first hand when talking with former troops of mine, many of whom haven't been on a tank for more than 2 years other than the check the block gunnery and FTX. Requirements to make promotion (Tank Commander Time/PSG time) were waived, since many would be unfairly bypassed through no fault of their own because of mission requirements. This in the past would keep you from getting promoted. Ask many former detailed recruiters (Worst job in the Army IMO). I can honestly say that as far as tanking skills go, I had much more experience with my first 2 years than many SSG's have today, just the way things are with the current world situation. Unfortunately there is a vacuum now in the NCO corp as far as intimate knowledge of their mount, with the guys who "Tanked for Sam" during the pre OIF days leaving and others being promoted up and out of the line units. Rare are the platoons that have troops who remember conducting 2-3 gunnery and 4-5 FTX's a fiscal year actually using tanks, let alone their own. In a perfect world, tankers would maintain their lethal proficiency with their mounts but able to function as Infantry squads effectively when called upon. Hopefully the powers that be can make this happen. This "Stars and Stripes" article is seems to be a step in the right direction.

Pulled my soap box out again, sorry guys , now it's time to shove it back under the bed.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

I do not, and never have, understood the mentality behind the phrase "Death Before Dismount". It implies that an armored crewman is unwilling or unable to be of meaningful service apart from his vehicle. When I was in AIT on M48's, we were trained on how to secure the M37 coax for ground use and fight on in case the vehicle needed to be abandoned.

In Vietnam, dismounted patrols and dismounted ambushes were a daily requirement and any crewman who had dared refuse such an assignment (I know not of one even having been ordered to go) would have been spoken of in most unflattering terms by his fellow troopers.

I would note that no one was considered above this duty, and that on Jan 10, 1972, G Troop suffered two KIA's on a dismounted patrol....Roger Kojetin (KIA on the spot) and William Marshall Clark, the Troop CO, who succumbed to his wounds from that engagement a few weeks later.

What Was The Most Dangerous Job In Vietnam?

Armor Crewman
(MOS 11E)
27% KIA
Source: Combat Area Casualty File 11/93 Nat'l Archives

Many of those performing dismounted operations did so even as assigned to an armored vehicle. And many an 11E found himself assigned as an 11D and in other than an armor unit (as I found out myself). On a personal level, I find the phrase offensive and unrepresentative of those with which I served in two units.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

It was a friggen joke. Lighten up, Francis.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

- tanker2010
It was a friggen joke. Lighten up, Francis.


I"m glad you find it funny.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Army training to focus more on 'hybrid threats'

Guys, lets keep it civil please. Needless to say, different experiences from different eras.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum