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#1: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Michel_Krauss, Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:28 pm
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Hi Massimo,

because of your question I decided to open an new topic

These days I am digging Solothurn's 20 mm weapons. Do you have additional pictures and info about their usage by Dutch Army?

Are you sure the anti-tank version was S-18-100 instead of S-18-1000 or S-18-1100?
Do they used/tried anti-aircraft weapons from Solothurn too?
Looks like Solothurn send a bunch of weapons in spring 1940, but they were stopped during the travel in the USA since it was too late to deliver them and, in the end, they went back to Switzerland.

Zaloga mentioned US Army evaluated S-18-1000, but gave up on the idea. Wikipedia reports that too:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._S-18/1000

I am curious to know if the US Army considered the weapons that were supposed to be delivered to the Netherlands or a more recent version.

Anyway, any additional info, either from the Netherlands or the USA is welcome.

If you have pictures from museums please contact me directly, I would love to get copies.

Massimo

After your question I heve been doing some research for Dutch Solothurn rifle's

The Dutch army received about 125 rifle's (according other info only 37) before the start of WW2
According some info the Dutch army would needed an total of about 1300 for the entire army, so they received only an small number

Concerning finding info about it, they Dutch rifle received the designation "Geweer tp-S 18-1100"
Written complete it would be "Geweer tegen pantserwagens Solothurn 18-1100" translated "rifle against armored cars Solothurn 18-1100"

So this also anwsers your question about the type used

If you search for "Geweer tp-S 18-1100" you can find some info in english (and some other languages I can not read like Russian, etc Mr. Green

)

The German army captured the rifles and gave it an special inventory number: Panzerabwehrbüsche 785(h) Ex
They also had the : Panzerabwehrbüsche 785(i) Ex former Italian army "Fucile anitearro 20mm S" (Ex German Rheinmetall, almost complete owner of Solothurn)

I did find an PDF file, about the Dutch Solothurn rifle's however it is Dutch only
So I will need some time to translate

Michel

#2: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Massimo_Foti, Location: Lugano, Switzerland

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:22 am
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Thanks Michel. S-18-1000 and S-18-1100 were basically the same, the 1100 model had the ability to fire fully automatic, as such it was possible to use it on an anti-aircraft mount. The italian Army used both the 1000 and 1100 models.

Two pictures of a S-18-1100 in Full are visible here:
www.flickr.com/photos/...088553191/

I plan to publish a photogallery of Solothurn's arsenal asap

Massimo

#3: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Michel_Krauss, Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:12 pm
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That cart for the rifle looks familiar

There is an picture of it, along with the crew inside the PDF I found

I found also some info at the website of the Dutch army museum Delft and the difference in numbers is more clear now
Info below come's from the site of the Army Museum Delft

The Dutch army received 6 Solothurn S18-150 in 1937 for testing, of these 6 only 1 survived and remains at the museum collection
Of the remaining 5, 3 have been rebuild to instruction model and the fate of the other 2 is unknown

After an possitve result also in 1937, 16 Solothurn S15-350 (identical to the S18-150) rifle's where ordered for Fokker T.V. bombers of the Dutch airforce
The weapons where used as armarment at the nose of the bomber
According to wiki it is an S18-100, however I believe the Army msuem about that
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_T.V

In 1938 the Dutch army started ordering S18-1000 (the other info tell's S18-1100 Neutral

) rifle's
At the outbreak of the war the Dutch army had received 125 rifle's and the Dutch East-Indisch army had received 72 rifle's

Of this type of rifle 2 example's are remaining, 1 at the collection of the Army museum, number 2 is from an private collector

Because of the weight of the rifle, the Dutch army also ordered the cart for transportation
49 of these where delivered at may 4th 1940 from Rheinmetall, the German attack started may 5th 1940

The complete (Dutch) article can be found here, the translation of googel translate is 90% okay
www.collectie.legermus...04787.html

Concerning the rifle at Overloon, I don't know the correct version of the rifle and I don't know anything about it's history

The sign reads: Pantserbuks (Zwitsers) it can be translated to: Tankifle (Swiss)

Michel

#4: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Massimo_Foti, Location: Lugano, Switzerland

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:46 pm
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In 1938 the Dutch army started ordering S18-1000 (the other info tell's S18-1100 ) rifle's

I don't think S-18-1100 were available already in 1938. But I may be wrong.

Concerning the rifle at Overloon, I don't know the correct version of the rifle and I don't know anything about it's history

Looks like it has the mechanism for selecting automatic fire just ahead of the trigger. This would make it a S-18-1100. Do you have additional shots of that area?
Yet we don't know if it's an original dutch gun, it could be the Museum got it from Switzerland post-war, just like they did with their 47 mm gun.

Thanks for the additional info

Massimo

#5: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Michel_Krauss, Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:02 pm
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Massimo,

I will send you some more picture's

While searching for picture's of the Solothurn AT rifle at my computer, I also found this picture

It give's an nice impression of the dimensions of 3 different rifle's

from front to rear
Boys AT Rifle (British) .55in (14mm)
Solothurn AT Rifle (Swiss) 20mm
Lahti L-39 AT Rifle (Finish) 20mm

If I remember correct the picture was taken some where in the US

Michel

#6: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Doug_Kibbey, Location: The Great Satan

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:40 pm
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Buried somewhere in the archives I have a scan from an old American gun magazine, about 1960, offering the "20mm unique Nazi rifles" for sale to general public at what would seem like an obscenely low price today (WELL under 4 figures..something like $180 comes to mind). It was definitely a Solothurn. Surplus ammo was also available for about $5 a round.

AHA!

#7: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Massimo_Foti, Location: Lugano, Switzerland

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:39 am
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Looks like back on those days they've got their hands on some swiss surplus sales.

You can see one in action here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRSczKvw7ek

Massimo

#8: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Doug_Kibbey, Location: The Great Satan

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:19 pm
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- Massimo_Foti

Looks like back on those days they've got their hands on some swiss surplus sales.

You can see one in action here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRSczKvw7ek

Massimo

I saved that ad from forever ago. Image title suggests it was from 1957. I bet if you'd bought one of those for $189, you could almost double your money now! Laughing

#9: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Michel_Krauss, Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:04 pm
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I saved that ad from forever ago. Image title suggests it was from 1957. I bet if you'd bought one of those for $189, you could almost double your money now

sorry to dis-appoint you,

I do not know where the picture was taken that I posted or who the collector was, however I do remember some things.

The rounds for the Lathi and the Solothurn where +/- 40$ a piece
And they have to be specialy made, because the are no longer available from remaining stock

I also heard thst the 3 rifle all together would be close to 30.000$, so I did some checking on that part
And you can still buy such rifle's

Of the 3 rifle's at the picture, the Boys rifle is the cheapest with only 4500$
The Lathis rifle is +/- 10500$, the remaining amount goes to the Solothurn......about 14.500$

Michel

#10: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Doug_Kibbey, Location: The Great Satan

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:01 pm
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OK, so maybe not this year.... Sad

#11: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Massimo_Foti, Location: Lugano, Switzerland

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:49 pm
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I've just uploaded a set of pictures from Solothurn's Museum. There are quite a few 20 mm over there:
www.flickr.com/photos/...005298601/

Massimo

#12: Re: Solothurn's 20 mm weapons Author: Massimo_Foti, Location: Lugano, Switzerland

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:35 am
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S18-1000, without the selector:

S18-1100, with the selector for automatic fire:

S18-1100, mounted on anti-aircraft support:

Massimo

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