Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:13 amPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:57 amPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:17 pm- Costas_TTThat's funny... I have the old ESCI 1/72 kit and was always wondering what other guns I could use to replace the gun/launcher as part of a potential what-if build. I definitely considered the M68 and the M256, among others.
Thanks for posting this.
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:53 pmPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:04 pmPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:31 pmPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:31 pm- Walter_SobchakI have a collection of 1/72 models, mostly prebuilt ones but some that I put together myself. I did not know there was a 1/72 scale kit of the M-60A2 out there. Looks like I'll have to check ebay for such a thing!
- Doug_KibbeyRe-hanging guns get tricky, balance is a critical factor. Also, anything that increases weight (like counterbalancing) further was a no-go on the A2, which already was ~5 tons heavier than an A1 and automotive performance was affected as a result. There was a requirement for 25mph on the straight and level, and this was probably not met on most of them as it was. Wear increased across all drivetrain components.
Unlike M48's and conventional M60 designs, the turret was not designed to accommodate updates (foreeen or unforeseen). It was what it was and would need to serve as the design had settled for it's (limited) life. Extending turrets in either direction was undesirable due to the already mentioned weight penalty and the already expansive vertical sides that nobody was keen to enlarge anyway for ballistic reasons.
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:48 am- Walter_SobchakI was sorting through some old documents that a friend had given me and found a rather large stack of papers entitled "M60A1E2 Tank Characteristics and Description Book" from October 1971 put out by "U.S. Army Materiel Command Project Manager-M60 Tanks." Like most technical manuals, it is not exactly the most exciting read. But at the very back of the report, they have a section detailing various other guns that may be fit into the M60A1E2 (later called M60A2) with technical data and lists of what would be involved in the conversion. I found this surprising, I had always assumed that the ill-fated M-60A2 had been specifically designed for the 152mm missle launcher/cannon hybrid. I had no idea that other guns were ever considered for that turret. The guns listed in the document are the XM150, which was the longer barreled version of the 152mm gun/launcher hybrid intended for the MBT-70, the M68 105mm gun that equipped the other versions of the M-60, the 120mm T123E6, a smooth bore cannon developed by the US but never put into production, and the British 120mm L11A2 cannon that was featured on Chieftain. I thought this was worth sharing, I have uploaded the relevant pages of the document here. Hopefully someone may find this information useful or at least interesting.
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:08 pm- Doug_Kibbey- Walter_SobchakI was sorting through some old documents that a friend had given me and found a rather large stack of papers entitled "M60A1E2 Tank Characteristics and Description Book" from October 1971 put out by "U.S. Army Materiel Command Project Manager-M60 Tanks." Like most technical manuals, it is not exactly the most exciting read. But at the very back of the report, they have a section detailing various other guns that may be fit into the M60A1E2 (later called M60A2) with technical data and lists of what would be involved in the conversion. I found this surprising, I had always assumed that the ill-fated M-60A2 had been specifically designed for the 152mm missle launcher/cannon hybrid. I had no idea that other guns were ever considered for that turret. The guns listed in the document are the XM150, which was the longer barreled version of the 152mm gun/launcher hybrid intended for the MBT-70, the M68 105mm gun that equipped the other versions of the M-60, the 120mm T123E6, a smooth bore cannon developed by the US but never put into production, and the British 120mm L11A2 cannon that was featured on Chieftain. I thought this was worth sharing, I have uploaded the relevant pages of the document here. Hopefully someone may find this information useful or at least interesting.
Thanks for uploading that, I already downloaded it successfully. My interest in this and any other documents you have links to or can transmit relates to having myself having reported to AMC (Test and Eval Cmd.-Armor Board) and was on the Initial Production Test Project for the M60A2. I also have an in-state contact who was at the Board before I was and was on the M60A1E2 project. Anything I can obtain would be much appreciated and would be shared with my colleague (who was also on the M551 project mid-late '60's). Thx in advance. You can PM me if we need to use other means for communication.
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:26 pmPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:16 pm- Doug_KibbeyIf we're safely in non-copyrighted material, that would be great! Thx.
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:59 pm- Walter_Sobchak- Doug_KibbeyIf we're safely in non-copyrighted material, that would be great! Thx.
Hmm, that's a fair point. Do 40 year old government documents fall under copyright laws? I mean, it's not like I am trying to sell them and they do, ultimately, belong to the tax payer. I would think it falls under "fair use" as long as its not something that is classified.
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:00 am
in the prison showers
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