- Neil_Baumgardner
- Roy_A_Lingle
When the developers started drawing up the Sherman tank, they were limited in how much it could weight. That limit came for the Combat Bridging Engineers M2 Treadway Pontoon bridge system.
<snip>That bridge could not have support the M-6 or T-23 heavy tanks. Notice the clearance between the treadway edges and the VVSS track block. Just a few inchs to spare on both sides. No room for a wider tank. No room for M4 with HVSS!
I'm sorry, but this sounds to me like putting the cart before the horse, or in this case the bridge before the tank... The bridge is designed to support the tank, the tank is designed to destroy infantry, fight tanks, etc, not to support the bridge. I understand this argument a little better when you're talking shipping, airlift or even rail-transport - for the first two at least you may have pretty big design constraints.
Designing the tank to fit the bridge seems a little backwards to me. Seems like if you decide you're going to have heavier tanks, you design bridges to handle said tanks - not decide you cant have heavier tanks because your current bridges cant handle them... Afterall, I would think its easier to design & build new heavier bridges than a heavier tank...
- Neil_Baumgardner
- Roy_A_Lingle
I seam to remember of picture of T-23 crossing a Bailey Bridge. As so as I can find it, I will add it to this post.
That would be interesting...
Neil
- Roy_A_Lingle
The Bailey bridge was designed and field long before anyone though about building the Pershing. Caption with the photo: "This is one method of crossing a 60 ton Bailey bridge. The heavy timbers were used to protect the bridge curbs." This tight fit problem wasn't corrected until after the end of WW II. I sure most expericened tracked vehicle operators will look at that photo and cringe with the though of 'throwing a track' right in the middle of that. Then try doing a crossing like that under fire.
Note: Width of a T-23, T-23E1, T-23E2 and T-23E3 was 138 inches over the sandshields.
My guess is the sandshields only added an inch or so to the width.
Note: M-6A1 Heavy tank: Width over track armor 123 inches.
Combat loaded weight: 126,300 pounds (or 63 tons).
Looks like a M-6A1 would fit on a Bailey Bridge, but it would need more panels added to rise the load limit.
My 2 cents on the bridge problem.
Sgt, Scouts Out!
- C_Sherman
Existing bridges in Europe at that time, even undamaged, were generally not designed to handle loads over MLC 20. This means that even capturing existing bridging intact was no guarantee that a heavy tank will be able to use it safely. (Some here may recall a large-scale effort to upgrade the German road bridge system in the 70's, to better support the growing weight of NATO AFVs.)
Just a little gas for the fire...
C
- SkeetBob Smart wrote:
"They used...American AP that had the explosive filler removed (I assume they were delivered with the cavity empty and that they did notactually remove the explosive charge that the Americans designed the rounds for). "
Many years ago a WWII/Sherman vet told me they were really happy when their 75 mm Shermans were replaced with 3" navy gunned Shermans (his choice of words). I presume what he called 3" navy guns were the 76 mm gun.
He said they liked them because you could add "gunpowder" to the shell. I never fully understood what he meant by that, but his words stayed with me. After reading Bob Smart's comment, I'd guess they were talking about the same thing.
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