Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....?
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#16: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: Shades, Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood. PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:06 pm
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- JG300-Ascout
if it has wireless, what do you need to take advantage of that at home?
Uh oh!
LOL
If it's configured properly, it shouldn't present any security problems to you or your neighbours.
Actually it should be more secure having a hardware firewall (via router) than software, although you could have both.

[Don't run two software firewalls, but you can run one hardware and one software firewall side-by-side]
#17: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:08 pm
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- JG300-Stoopy
Hmmm..okay: From what I know of your preferences, you want to walk into a store somewhere and just get the stuff, rather than buy online. And also keep it simple, and not spend more than you need to. So here's what I think I'd do (as a matter of fact I think I'll go get the first item myself soon).

Go with the Office 2007 products rather than the 2003 products, becuase you'll get MS Word 2007 and won't have to deal with the trouble in the future of having MS Word 2003 which won't be able to open documents made with Word 2007.

In that light, youcan go right to Best Buy if you want and pick up Office Home and Student 2007, which wil give you 2007 versions of Excel, PowerPoint, Word, and OneNote (note-taking thingamajig). So you have Word Processing, Spreadsheet, and presentations:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8129447&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01083&id=1158320998618

That's $149.99

Then for $98.99 grab MS Outlook 2007 off the same shelf....and you have your fancy new latest & greatest email program.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8168323&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01083&id=1162593933838

Total $250 so far. Dell wants $275 for Office 2007 Small Business Edition which is about the same thing with a sales contact manager thing if you need that....

BUT, the nice thing about buying these seperately and not packaged with the Dell, is you will have a legal end user license agreement to install these on two seperate systems - say, one desktop and one laptop system.
And while you're there, go to the other aisle and pick up your router (Dell wants too much for the same thing, $120)....for about seventy bucks:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat25300050001&type=category&parentCatID=false&initialize=false&initialize=true&_requestid=53561

So that's $320 in add-ons, plus the price of the D820 with 1Gig of RAM which is $1149, gets you to $1470 and tax......pretty close to your upper limit but about all you're gonna need.

If it makes you feel more confident, I wrote all that while sitting here by the fireplace on my exact similar laptop:



I LIKE that plan...because I DO plan an upgrade at home and want that flexibility for the desktop as well!

Say...this leads me to another question....

Should I even buy another desktop for me, or just a strong laptop with a big-a$$ accessory monitor and keyboard for gaming purposes? Can I get enough USBs and ports and stuff for accessories or is the desktop not dead yet?
#18: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Stoopy, Location: Group W bench PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:26 pm
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- JG300-Ascout
Stoop...the first one you got linked there is actually for 2007, which is what is pretty much what is for sale via Dell anyway...and who wants do a bunch of upgrades for 4-5 year old software anywho? I'd get the '07 variety. Mainly, I'm wondering what's the diff between "Home and Student" and the "Office Standard"...both seem to offer Word, Excel, Powerpoint and like that there...and that's the main thing. We both have email so Outlook is no biggie. She just needs to do her biochemist thang. Presentations and so on... Data stuff.

And her MP3 Stuff (so I can get it the heck off my computer!) and her pics an' stuff, cuz' gawd knows, I got enough of those cluttering up my own system now.

Mainly, we have a "competition" for the computer issue at home that we need to relieve, and the smaller unit will be nice for using elsewhere in the house.

Hey, if it has wireless, what do you need to take advantage of that at home? (I'm not sure I want to go that way at home...I've heard of security issues with neighbors and stuff).


Yup, as mentioned above, the 2007 products make the most sense and the "Best Buy" strategy seems solid. Specifically, it will get you MS Powerpoint, and that's something to be careful of, becuase there are versions of Office that don't come with it, and then you're sunk as far as working on presentations goes.

Windows XP, to my knowledge, won't come with an email prgram, it's easy to think it would, becuase it comes with Internet Explorer for web surfing and also our systems probably came with some form of MS Office on them (I know mine did) which gave us Outloook. But if you're excluding MS Office as being bundled with the system, I am fairly certain you'll need to make sure you get MS Outlook for your email, one way or the other...if you want to do email from the laptop, which at some point you likely will.

I truly appreciate the contention at home over one system. I've had to hunker down with my laptop to keep the peace many times, and also added another desktop system to the house. It truly keeps the peace!!!

To take advantage of wireless, all you'll need is the router. Yep, there can be security issues becuase your nearby neighbors can have wireless devices that will "see" your wireless router. The router provides some different options to prevent anyone accessing it, and setting that up is fairly straigthforward as long as you have someone to give you some tips.

I have one neighbor with an unprotected router and have actually, accidentally, connected to the internet through it while sitting in the breakfast nook!

On the other hand, my router is set up to recognize the actual hardware ID's of the systems in our house and let nothing else connect to it. This is the way to go in my opinion (wireless MAC filter).
#19: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Stoopy, Location: Group W bench PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:40 pm
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- JG300-Ascout

I LIKE that plan...because I DO plan an upgrade at home and want that flexibility for the desktop as well!

Say...this leads me to another question....

Should I even buy another desktop for me, or just a strong laptop with a big-a$$ accessory monitor and keyboard for gaming purposes? Can I get enough USBs and ports and stuff for accessories or is the desktop not dead yet?


The desktop is WAY far from dead buddy! I would, absolutely, never ever ever ever ever buy a laptop for any simming purposes. Case in point - look what you've done to your dekstop since buying it - added RAM and a vid card (admittedly, a long time ago, but still). Man, try doing that to a laptop and you're looking at huge bucks IF you can get the components designed specifically for it by the time you realize you want to buy them a couple years later. Upgrading laptops is a SUCKY proposition compared to a desktop, so - while I have nothing against them for practicality - my opinion is get what you're gonna need in it to begin with (hence, the additional RAM) and be done with it.

When you go get your new rig, you wanna get a desktop to be sure, bud. You pay less for what you get because you don't need the miniaturization and packaging of a laptop, nor a new screen. And they're EASY to upgrade.

Shades and others will (rightly, for most) give you advice on building your own, but the thing to stress is that, if I may say, I know you are not the type and don't wanna mess with it. I'm the same way these days, although I have built all my own systems up until buying a Dell, then a Gateway.

The Dell stank to upgrade the motherboard on, but the Gateway uses common components so it's my last PC for a long while. The strategy that worked for me was to find one with:
a) Fastest processor I could find,
b) Enough RAM to keep me happy for a while (2 Gigabytes, seriously, for simming these days)
c) a LOUSY video card!!!

Why the lousy vid card? Simple......because even the nicer ones that come with a system will stink for simming about 6-12 months later. So, save money on the base system, and go over to the Video Card aisle and grab yourself a really nice card that's so new it's not packages with any systems yet, and has 512MB RAM and stuff.

Yep!!!!!!! THEN you go home and install that bad boy in the new-but-not-expensive system, and you're crankin!

Oh, and yes, the new desktops will come with USB ports a-plenty on the front and back.....no lack of ability to plug stuff in to 'em.

Thing is, and it's overlooked these days but still true, there is no other kind of applciation you'll commonly find that absolutley stresses the CPU, memory and video card hardware more than a flight simulator program will. It's always been true since the early days. Tons and tons of calculations and math going on just to do the flight dynamics, not to mention the scenery and visual presentaion data going to the vid card, and the complex textures we have these days that demand more and more RAM. That right there spells lots of trouble for simmingon a laptop, although they are GREAT for Office applciations that only have to work as fast as human fingers can type. Smile

Hey my flight is cancelled so I'll be aorund but I gotta go chop wood for the fire.....hope that gets most of your questions for now!
#20: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:52 pm
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'Kay...so, like, all I need is wifey's laptop...software an' stuff...then, since Ascout is OK with his monitor and keyboard and printer an' stuff...all he really needs is a new system unit (Gateway, I guess, since that's what I have, with all the drivers from my first purchase) and presumably I can get one without Vista? ...an' stuff? Ain't looked yet.

Sounds like a plan.... Wink
#21: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Stoopy, Location: Group W bench PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:50 pm
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Yup, your monitor and keyboard can make the trip over to the new system, no sweat. New keyboard will come with the new one even if ya don't want it.

The trick might be getting a WIndows XP system.....just for fun I went to Gateway's website and saw that all systems are offered with Vista now. I won't question your reasons for not wanting it.

Anyway, I did notice that in teeny tiny print below the Vista selections it said "Looking for a Windows XP system? Click here to talk to live sales rep"......hopefully, this might be because MS is pushing vendors to list only VISTA on the options list, but the vendor doesn't want to loose sales to XP fans and so will configure an XP system in a discreet manner. I mean, I hope the rep's job isn't just to try to convice everyone to go with Vista.

It's a tough time to buy a new PC because those really FAST Core 2 Duo Intel systems (2.8Ghz) have a big price delta right now. I think the best I did was about $1500 for a desktop rig with 2Gig RAM, a 2.66Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, and a pukey ATI 1300X vid card with 128MB.

Then you'd wanna rip that card out and go hit the local retailer and get a NICE vid card for whatever else you can add to the total price.....personally I made the switch from Nvidia to ATI (running an ATI 1650 PRO with 512MB RAM right now and pretty happy) and really like ATI's driver setup and control software, but there's lots of advice you can get here on that route. Two or even three bills if you can, will get you going in style.

Just make sure to accidentally bump the software shelf when you walk by so that FSX falls into the shopping cart...

Hopefully maybe, manufacturers are going to continue to offer XP even if discrettly, and then it's just a game of how long you can hold off while you wait for the faster CPU's to slowly come down into the sweet spot pricing range. The Intel Core 2 Duo's are supposed to be nice but still I wouldn't want to consider anything less than 2.4Ghz.
#22: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:07 pm
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Wink
- JG300-Stoopy

The trick might be getting a WIndows XP system.....just for fun I went to Gateway's website and saw that all systems are offered with Vista now. I won't question your reasons for not wanting it.

Anyway, I did notice that in teeny tiny print below the Vista selections it said "Looking for a Windows XP system? Click here to talk to live sales rep"......hopefully, this might be because MS is pushing vendors to list only VISTA on the options list, but the vendor doesn't want to loose sales to XP fans and so will configure an XP system in a discreet manner. I mean, I hope the rep's job isn't just to try to convice everyone to go with Vista.
.


'Cuz three out of four website forums that I frequent have brisk threads just full of fulminant posts bristling with mucho annoyed users that are hyper PO'ed about their systems that have it. From constant popups about "are you sure you want to do this" to existing software that suddenly is no longer compatible. Lots of unprintable lanugage is being used.

Where on the Gateway site is that "footnote"...I can't find it?
#23: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Stoopy, Location: Group W bench PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:26 pm
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Yeah, like I said I won't question your reasons. I bought a Gateway for the kid this last Christmas (for the same reasons you need a second 'puter in the house, and now I can FLY again!!) and it came with XP but with a upgrade coupon for a free Vista O/S upgrade which will be arriving shortly. I'm gonna let the kid test drive it for me.....

Go to Gateway.com, select a Desktop, select "View Details" then select "Customize and Buy" (after you de-select the MCAfee Security and 3-year warranty stuff).....you'll see the note under the OS selection choices:



Here's something I whipped up, and note the 500GB hard drive, which is about the best price/performance option I saw, and worth it.....you'll wonder how you lived so long with 40 Gigs!!!!

System
Gateway® DX420B

Base Price $549.99
Additional Items:

500GB 7200rpm Serial ATA II/ 300 hard drive w/ 16MB cache [$159.00]

2048MB 667MHz PC5300 Dual-Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2-1024MB modules) [$229.00]

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6700 (2.66GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 4MB cache, non-HT) [$550.00]2

Removed Items:


Base Price $549.99
Instant Discount
Additional Items $938.00
Removed Items $0.00

Total $1,487.99

Then, here's the part where whipping out the credit card and calling NewEgg or someone pays off......ya order up this bad boy to replace that pukey lil' 128MB card it has in it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103022

Of course there are other choices along that line and NVidia makes a fine card as well.

Anyway, that card is shown at $250 so for like $1750 you'd end up with a pretty healthy system that has some guts (LOTSA guts for the sims you have now) and is way better than stock with just a touch of wrenching and personalization.....kinda like that nasty lil' black Moostang with the Hurst shifter ya bolted in. Wink
#24: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-fr8ycat, Location: Los Angeles PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:13 pm
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Dang it I guess I'm to late to offer your misus one heck of a deal.

For an In 'n' Out DD/W cheese/animal style she can have it.

Dell inspiron 3200 notebook
233Mhz w/512Mb ram (smokin fast)
Came with Windows 95 but has been upgraded to 98 (want charge ya for that upgrade bud)
4G HD
56K ext. PC Card modem
#25: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-fr8ycat, Location: Los Angeles PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:56 pm
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Alright already. 3 Del Taco hard shell tacos with Del Scorcho sauce....... but that's as low as I go!
#26: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:23 pm
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- JG300-fr8ycat
Dang it I guess I'm to late to offer your misus one heck of a deal.

For an In 'n' Out DD/W cheese/animal style she can have it.

Dell inspiron 3200 notebook
233Mhz w/512Mb ram (smokin fast)
Came with Windows 95 but has been upgraded to 98 (want charge ya for that upgrade bud)
4G HD
56K ext. PC Card modem


Dude!....she's already got picture folders of our godchild bigger than that.

Nice try though, 'preciate the offer! Laughing
#27: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Stoopy, Location: Group W bench PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:25 am
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Over 2,000 miles from In-N-Out here.....about ready to ship you out MY Lattitude D820 for one of those Double-Doubles with cheese.......throw in the fries and the choco shake and I'll overnight it....
#28: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:10 pm
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The saga of the great notebook buy!

So, last nite, The Ascout and esposa call le' Dell and try to buy ze D820 Latitude "better"...but ze business dept....she is a-clos-ed so we are shunted to home computers. Where they really don't want to sell me a "latitude". In fact, they refuse. Like, "you're not a small business...you don't have a tax I.D. number...but I can sell you an "Inspiron" or "XPS"(very expensive) and all with "Vista". "But I don't want Vista."

Much BS ensues. I'm emphatic. I want XP, I go to "hold". Forever. I hang up.

Eventually, I go to Gateway. I price out a system. It's cheaper, but not by much. I'm ready to buy this morning, BUT.....


....just on a hoot, I call the Dell business center, NOW that they're at work (finally). "Hey, no problem, we'll happily sell you the Latitude for your wife's Biochemistry work, doesn't matter if she's not a "business" or hasn't a tax I.D. number...oh, you don't want Vista? Well we get a LOT of calls like that, no problem. XP Professional it is!"

So, on or about March 26 they will ship the D820 with the 1Gg mem, 80Gg HD, 15.4" screen, wireless equipped, with three years ON SITE service for $1,352.

Ascout's tip of the day. Call in the daytime. Rolling Eyes
#29: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: Shades, Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood. PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:52 pm
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- JG300-Ascout
you don't want Vista? Well we get a LOT of calls like that
lmao
#30: Re: Short course, need laptop, no Vista, what to do....? Author: JG300-Stoopy, Location: Group W bench PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:58 pm
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Dontchya love it when a plan works out?! You're not gonna get back from your trip at the end of the month soon enough!

And hey! By sheer coinky-dink, I just purchased MS Office 2007 "Home and Student" version yesterday......paid $122 and change for it at Costco (we just became members there and saw it offered). Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and this "OneNote" thingy, all the latest and greatest versions which actually have a brand new newfangled look to the interface, different but not bad.

There was NO "qualification" needed or paperwork to fill out, etc. Buy it, walk out, install it, say "yes" to the licensing agreement, let it validate itself via the internet connection after punching in the key code, and bam, that's it. Also, the licensing agreement states it's allowed to be installed on up to THREE devices per household. Hardest thing was figuring how to open the odd-shaped packaging. Th'kid then proceeded to whip up an excellent presentation for his school project within a coupla hours.

You might even have basic Outlook email installed on the thing as part of XP (you should at least get Internet Explorer and they're kinda tied together or so I thought), and if so then all ya need besides Office is that wireless router and you're good to go!
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