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Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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west-front
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:45 am
Post subject: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

The Libyan Capital of Tripolis is undergoing massive civil construction works at that time. During excavations for a new residence quarter at the seashore at the western limits of the city, a WW2 tank has been unearthed.Since Tripolis was not defended by the Axis forces in January 1943 and since the damage on the tank is too various, it seems to me that this particular vehicle was used for target practicing and then left abandoned








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clausb
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

As this Sherman has add-on armour on the hull, wouldn't it seem rather unlikely that it has anything to do with WWII in Africa? Perhaps rather a vehicle aquired by Lybia post-war and used as a target?

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

But there isn't add on armor in front of the driver and co-driver position and I thought that was one of the first weak spots that was addressed with add on plates
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claude_GILLONO
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

An M4A4.
This version was quite frequent in Commonwealth hands while training in North Africa before crossong to Italy.
HTH
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Jared
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:36 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

The mantlet is a bit strange.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

Looks like it's turned 90 degrees.

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:32 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

Nah it couldn't be...

I seem to recall reading an article quite a few years ago about the development of the Churchill NA 75 by one of those involved In it the author said that they tried the gun mount at various angles on some damaged Shermans before settling on the upside down position and then transferring it to an actual Churchill.

I'll see if I can find the article.

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Buq-Buq
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

I think that the rotor shield is rotated about 75-80 degrees clockwise (as viewed from the breech end). Notice where the little 'ears' are positioned.




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tankbarrell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

The M34 mantlet is only held on with 4no. 5/8" screws and in this case it almost certainly has broken screws and the shield has turned and slipped off a little. The M34A1 mantlet is held on with 6no. 1" screws.

It is an M4A4 converted to twin GM diesels from an M4A2 and used as a range target.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:09 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

I thought I'd add my 2 cents to the conversation



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tankbarrell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:20 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

Not sure what that adds.... A head on of a large hatch hull with an M34 mount, not a production model. Are you saying you disagree about it being an M4A4?
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:46 am
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

Looking at the spacing of the suspension I don't think there is much doubt about it being an M4A4 hull. I'm curious as to how we know it was converted to have twin diesels from an M4A2.

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tankbarrell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

I have an M4A4 I restored and so am very familiar with the engine installation. This tank is quite different. The extra filler pipes are typical of M4A2 oil tank fillers, the M4A4 air cleaner pipe holes are covered as a result, what looks llike an M4A2 fuel tap is visible on the bulkhead and the perforated fuel tank cover plates are often seen in M4A2.
Ok, it's not a definate without seeing a better view but it's also not an uncommon conversion in that part of the world.
I'd risk £10 on a bet!
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

I don't dispute the ID as I'm not quite as proficient distnguishing Shermans.

I've got a bit of experience crewing an operational M4 & M4A2, aand I've turned a wrench or two on several Sherman projects, but I'm actually not a big fan.

I Just thought each image helped ID that vehicle as having M4A4 & some M4A2 features.

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Don
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

- tankbarrell
I have an M4A4 I restored and so am very familiar with the engine installation. This tank is quite different. The extra filler pipes are typical of M4A2 oil tank fillers, the M4A4 air cleaner pipe holes are covered as a result, what looks llike an M4A2 fuel tap is visible on the bulkhead and the perforated fuel tank cover plates are often seen in M4A2.
Ok, it's not a definate without seeing a better view but it's also not an uncommon conversion in that part of the world.
I'd risk £10 on a bet!


I am constantly amazed at how much information some folks can garner from a realtivly limited photo. As I said I could tell it was an M4A4 hull because of the bogie spacing. I was curious as to whether something in the picture told you it had been converted or if you knew more about that particular hull than had come across in the message thread.

I had never heard of Shermans having their engines converted during that time frame. Do you know if it was common?

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