±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 193
Total: 193
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: News Archive
09: Community Forums
10: CPGlang
11: Community Forums
12: Member Screenshots
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: CPGlang
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: CPGlang
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Home
27: Tell a Friend
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: CPGlang
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Home
47: Home
48: Member Screenshots
49: Home
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: CPGlang
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Statistics
61: Statistics
62: Home
63: CPGlang
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Downloads
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: News
71: Community Forums
72: CPGlang
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: CPGlang
77: Home
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Statistics
84: CPGlang
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Statistics
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Member Screenshots
92: CPGlang
93: CPGlang
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Downloads
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: News
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: News Archive
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Downloads
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: CPGlang
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Your Account
136: Home
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Home
148: CPGlang
149: Home
150: CPGlang
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Your Account
155: Home
156: Home
157: Home
158: CPGlang
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Photo Gallery
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Home
170: CPGlang
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: CPGlang
179: CPGlang
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: CPGlang
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Home
191: CPGlang
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Post subject: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello,

Wiml Dirks pointed something out in an email I received some days ago :

Bruce Crompton, who owns a SdKfz 250, a 251 and what is believed to be an original Jagdpanzer 38(t), participated to a reenactment event at Overloon in May 2010.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623957457977/

Some photos of the interior show the marking "Achtung! Panzerjägerkanone 40 - schiessen ohne Mündungsbremse verboten", which translated, means "Beware! Panzerjäger gun 40 - Fire without the muzzle brake is forbidden"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4615687815/in/set-72157623957457977/

The problem is that German Jagdpanzer 38(t) don't have muzzle brakes, only G-13s have this feature.

Does it mean that the tank is indeed a G-13, or does it rather mean that the interior was restored like a G-13 interior?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I'd say it's a G13, since only G13s have the muzzle brakes, like you say. The German text must have been put on by the Swiss since it's effectively their primary language (whether officially or not).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

On top of that, original Hetzers had KwK 39 guns, G-13s had StuK 40 guns. So even the number referring to the gun tells it could be a G-13.

But I have to say that usually stencils on swiss tanks are written both in german and french.

I just checked my interior pictures from the G-13 in Schaffhausen, and saw no stencils at all.

I would still hesitate to flag this as G-13. Better put a question mark on it.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
WimD.
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- WimD.
Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.


yes, but the information on my website are not 100% reliable..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

He has done a good job on it but after spending the past two hours going through every image I have of these vehicles I think I can safely say it was originally a G13/G13D/G14...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all,

I just saw this topic and I might be able to contribute a bit.

I made the pics in the gallery linked in the first post. The marking in question is indeed incorrect for this vehicle. It is an older restoration and I guess that interior photos from an G-13 (possibly from a manual) were used as a reference. According to the Crompton Collection's chief mechanic (who didn't work on the restoration of the Hetzer), some time in the future it is scheduled to have a rebuild which would include a full repaint inside and out along with a full mechanical overhaul. There are several other restorationprojects in the pipeline that come first though, so it might be a while before it's the Hetzers' turn.

That said, this Hetzer is an original 1944 early production vehicle. It was indeed recovered from the Vilseck barracks where it was buried after the war, together with (I think) a Pz IV. It still has battle scars on mainly the right side from small arms fire and shrapnel. It also has most of the features found on early production vehicles (exhaust route, early pattern roadwheels and first pattern drive sprockets).

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Why would someone bury a hetzer and a Mark IV? Lack of fuel?

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Pzkpfw-e
I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?

No it isn't, but I don't know who the owner is.


- Pzkpfw-e
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.

That would be the most likely scenario I would say. Although it has lots of battle scars I don't think it got a devasting hit.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

The interior is correct for a Hetzer. might have been incorrectly stenciled. guns, muzzle brakes, cupolas and even turrets can be easily changed and should not be used as the only reference for the model of a particular model of tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Tobias Haudenschild forwarded me his observations on this tank. I am posting on his behalf:

According to MY knowledge, it has to be a Swiss G-13. Here are my arguments:

The gun as such seems to be a PAK 39. But the horizontal movement of the PAK 39 (in Hetzers) was achieved by a cardan shaft that is completely missing on this particular vehicle. Besides, all handles and mountings for the gun are identical to the G-13's arrangement.

The firing button (on picture 065) was a Swiss modification (in G-13s it was actually red).

The driver's instrument panel is the one used in G-13s. In the Hetzer the display for water temperature was located on the far left of the panel.

A clear identification could be achieved by checking wheter the vehicle has an escape hatch on the floor of the fighting compartment, as only Swiss G-13s had this hatch...

You were actually right that Swiss G-13s were marked both in German and French on the interior. For sure the interior markings shown in the pictures are not of Swiss origin. They might be an invention of the vehicle's owner.

Altogether I have to say that it is a very fine G-13 to Hetzer conversion that features a lot of details that makes it look like an original Hetzer.


Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/

The Vilseck Pzkpfw IV--Restoration(?) Wheatcroft now the tank stands in the IWM Duxford

Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Andreas
Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/
Andreas

This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic , but perhaps it is one of Wheatcrofts' vehicles?

It could very well be that G-13 interior pictures or manuals and even some parts were (incorrectly) used in or as a reference during the restoration, what would explain the presence of some G-13 parts/details. It does not have an escape hatch.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello David

"This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic "........but it looks very (very) similar!!


Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum