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ShermanWasRight · Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- TrevorLarkum

- ShermanWasRight

If it helps any, here's the rear plate from the M47 in Reynoldsburg, OH (no SN though):

Thanks - that has prompted me to add an entry for this one too:

VFW Post 9473, Reynoldsburg, Ohio

(Unique ID 1329: Reynoldsburg M47)

Do you have any general pictures of it that I could use?

[Everyone else - thanks for your posts, I'm trying to work through them in order.]

I've got more, too, if you need them.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Tanklord

The M47 that was in the Louisiana Museum of Military History, which later was transferred to Camp Shelby, MS, was an Italian rebuild. It had bothe the plate with all the little squares and the plate with ORMC.

Thanks for that - I'll return to Camp Shelby at a later date (watch this space).

- Kurt_Laughlin

The casting marks on the M47 turret (Pittsburgh Steel Foundry, Scullin Steel, CFM-Wheeling, and General Steel Castings, are the ones I recall.) indicate only the foundry that cast the turret, nothing else. The only tank producer that made any cast armor in the period 1940-1965 was Ford, whose GAD symbol can be seen on numerous small armor items on their M4A3s. (They also produced bogie brackets for other assemblers, but I don't believe these were armor steel.)

KL

I wondered if that might be the case. I guess then that no correlation can be discerned between turrets and hulls (e.g. Pittsburgh turrets always went to Detroit, Scullin Steel turrets always went to American Locomotive)? It's not necessarily a problem, as I also try to track turrets anyway, where they are made independently of hulls. Examples are the Tiger I and II (turret manufacturer listed/linked to in Location History, and also marked on the map if you zoom in far enough), e.g.:

Unique ID 72: Bovington Tiger
Unique ID 216: Saumur King Tiger

Whether I can manage to do this for US tanks remains to be seen, but I will try.

- Dontos

I went thru M47 Photos & noticed that the Shepardsville Ky M47 does have the 'rain gutters'

However it does not seem to have the Italian Rebuild data plate....

Trevor
Due to the proximity to Ft Knox, perhaps this may be one of your mystery M47's (#3 or #4).

Just a thought
Don

That would be neat - however, all mine had the cylindrical muzzle brake. Nice pics, though - I'll try to do a write-up for this M47 as soon as I can.

- TrevorLarkum

Thanks - that has prompted me to add an entry for this one too:

VFW Post 9473, Reynoldsburg, Ohio

Updated with Mike's photo:

Unique ID 1329: Reynoldsburg M47

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Trevor, I was in Solbiate Olona 10 days ago but, once again, there was very little time, and I've spend most of it on the L6 and Sherman Dozer (see dedicated thread). I failed to check the rebuilt plate for the M47, but I've took some additional shots of it. Let me know if you are working on it and would like a copy.

Massimo

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- Joe_D

Chuck,

That Triangular decal is the old "NTC" sticker we used to have at Irwin. Armor symbol with no name below and a circle in the center with "NTC" inside it. Used to pass that tank on the way to work, She was right next to the overpass of I-15. I was at Irwin when they put her out there (Mid 80's) I'm sure she was one among many they had stored at Bicycle Lake. All were former Italian, to include the display tank on post that for a while sat in front of 1-63 Armors' Motor Pool.

Joe,

That M47 was still by the motorpool as of late 2008, although it's an 11ACR motorpool now. I have pics of it too.

Chuck

Joe_D · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Chuck,

That Triangular decal is the old "NTC" sticker we used to have at Irwin. Armor symbol with no name below and a circle in the center with "NTC" inside it. Used to pass that tank on the way to work, She was right next to the overpass of I-15. I was at Irwin when they put her out there (Mid 80's) I'm sure she was one among many they had stored at Bicycle Lake. All were former Italian, to include the display tank on post that for a while sat in front of 1-63 Armors' Motor Pool.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- ShermanWasRight

If it helps any, here's the rear plate from the M47 in Reynoldsburg, OH (no SN though):

Thanks - that has prompted me to add an entry for this one too:

VFW Post 9473, Reynoldsburg, Ohio

(Unique ID 1329: Reynoldsburg M47)

Do you have any general pictures of it that I could use?

[Everyone else - thanks for your posts, I'm trying to work through them in order.]

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

Trevor,

Are you tracking two tanks at Chiriaco Summit? I have pics of a green one and a brown MERDC one there.

Here is the Barstow tank in April of 2008:

The 'license plate' is missing, but there were numbers underneath it. I couldn't make them out:

[img] www.com-central.net/mo....jpg[/img]

The Italian flag was showing through the paint on the front fender:

The re-build plate was missing (which seems common for displayed M47s), you can see the mounting plate. The Italian flag is showing through on the fender. The opposite fender had numbers that had been painted over that looked like a row of zeros, pretty much illegible. There is a triangular armor-looking insignia on the access plate, that looks similar to the US armor division patches, but not quite the same.

Enjoy!

Chuck

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- C_Sherman

Hi,

Another M47 here:

www.bing.com/maps/defa...&sty=b

Barstow, California. No idea why it's there, but the proximity of Ft. Irwin, 29 Palms, and the USMC Logistics Base in Barstow are probably a factor.

I have some ground pics of it here somewhere and I'll post them if I can find them. It is definitely an Italian return, in fact the Italian markings were showing through the paint when I was there.

Chuck

Thanks for that - I'm currently 'officially' working on Preserved Tanks at Fort Knox (hence all the FK discussions, including M47s) and Preserved Tanks in Italy (hence the Museo Carristi M47 discussion). However, I'm getting intrigued by these M47s, and I'm easily distracted (!), so I've stopped to research and write up the Barstow M47 (thanks for the Bing link, that was a very good place to start):

Location ID 54610: Barstow Centennial Park

(or you can go straight to the tank:

Unique ID 1328: Barstow M47)

Let me know if there's anything I've left out or should change, or if any of the links on those pages don't work. It would be great to add your pics if you find them (best method for me is if you send the originals to trevor-larkum at armourarchive.co.uk and I will process them for the website). I also hope they indicate which Italian plant reworked it (for now it has a general 'Italian' location marked on the map).

Kurt_Laughlin · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 577

I looked at my photos and see plates in two positions: One is about three inches below the right lift lug, the other is about six inches below the tow cable clamp - perfectly positioned to be blocked by the railing in your photo!

KL

Dontos · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

I went thru M47 Photos & noticed that the Shepardsville Ky M47 does have the 'rain gutters'

However it does not seem to have the Italian Rebuild data plate....

Trevor
Due to the proximity to Ft Knox, perhaps this may be one of your mystery M47's (#3 or #4).

Just a thought
Don

Kurt_Laughlin · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 577

The casting marks on the M47 turret (Pittsburgh Steel Foundry, Scullin Steel, CFM-Wheeling, and General Steel Castings, are the ones I recall.) indicate only the foundry that cast the turret, nothing else. The only tank producer that made any cast armor in the period 1940-1965 was Ford, whose GAD symbol can be seen on numerous small armor items on their M4A3s. (They also produced bogie brackets for other assemblers, but I don't believe these were armor steel.)

KL

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- TrevorLarkum

- Massimo_Foti

The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Understood, updated. Any idea where it came from, i.e. was it supplied from the US? If so, clearly some US M47s had the drip-rails.

I have no idea, sorry. I would assume it came from the US. But I am just guessing.

Massimo

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos

Today I did notice that the M47 (SN 3200) does have the 'rain gutters'.....

I guess I need to check the others here to see if that is present.

Regards
Don

This is what I have from photo's:

Unique ID 1326: Ex-Italian M47, rain gutters

Unique ID 1321: Ex-Belgian M47, has rain gutters except on front left of turret, and they are different (less obvious) than the Italian style

Unique ID 1324: Cutaway M47, no rain gutters seen, but unclear from photos (covered by tarpaulins)

Unique ID 1325: Stithton M47, rain gutters

If and when you can find the time and interest, I think the following would be useful:

1. Look for an upgrade plate on the back of the Stithton M47 - from the rain gutters theory it should turn out to be ex-Italian.
2. Confirm the cutaway M47 doesn't have rain gutters - it doesn't appear to be ex-Italian (may be genuine ex-US).
3. There are casting marks on the side of the Belgian M47 turret - I'd be interested to know more, particularly if they indicate where the turret or tank were built (should be Detroit Arsenal or American Locomotive off the top of my head). Also, do any of the others have these marks?

Tanklord · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:55 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The M47 that was in the Louisiana Museum of Military History, which later was transferred to Camp Shelby, MS, was an Italian rebuild. It had bothe the plate with all the little squares and the plate with ORMC.

ShermanWasRight · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

If it helps any, here's the rear plate from the M47 in Reynoldsburg, OH (no SN though):

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