±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 552
Total: 552
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Your Account
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Photo Gallery
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Statistics
37: Photo Gallery
38: CPGlang
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Your Account
58: CPGlang
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Your Account
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: CPGlang
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Photo Gallery
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Your Account
78: Downloads
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Photo Gallery
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Downloads
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: News Archive
115: Community Forums
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Photo Gallery
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Home
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: CPGlang
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: News Archive
173: Home
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Search
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Statistics
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Downloads
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Your Account
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Downloads
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: CPGlang
228: Community Forums
229: Member Screenshots
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Statistics
254: Member Screenshots
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Your Account
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Home
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Downloads
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Member Screenshots
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Your Account
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: CPGlang
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Home
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Downloads
313: Community Forums
314: News Archive
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: CPGlang
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Downloads
325: Photo Gallery
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Downloads
335: Your Account
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: CPGlang
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: CPGlang
364: Community Forums
365: Statistics
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Downloads
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Downloads
384: Downloads
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Photo Gallery
391: Your Account
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: CPGlang
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Downloads
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Your Account
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Photo Gallery
439: Photo Gallery
440: Home
441: Member Screenshots
442: CPGlang
443: Downloads
444: Community Forums
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Downloads
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Photo Gallery
454: Member Screenshots
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Photo Gallery
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Statistics
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Search
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Downloads
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: CPGlang
488: Member Screenshots
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Photo Gallery
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Your Account
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Downloads
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: CPGlang
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: CPGlang
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Photo Gallery
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3 churchills
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- L.Delsing
Hello Jinx,
Were is this Conqueror (and Cent in the background) located??

Regards,
Lesley



I am sorry, i have absolutely no idea. The website -

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

- just has the photos, and no information.

There is a second page -

home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm

- that shows some close-ups, including of the suspension.

(Main page = www.armourinfocus.co.uk/indexfb.htm )

Maybe someone else will recognize this museum.....?
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Well, I think the number and the size of Churchill wheels is somehow connected with its ability to survive after mineblast damage... The track is really thick and when blasted off one "bogie" could be changed and till that moment tank is able to move forward without any special problems.
The configuration of Churchill - I mean these side sponsons provides extra space to relatively narrow hull
To the question on location of Centurion and Conqueror - this seems to be located somewhere at the milbase doesn't it (wire fence + Concertina wire)? May these tanks be gatekeepers?
I can remember Chieftain in Aldershot for example..
The pics of Conqueror driven through muddy terrain were taken in Duxford IWM I am sure, so could these gatekeepers be located there (not at the main entrance to the museum)? Maybe they were taken at the "backyard" gate of IWM Duxford?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Thanks!
Wild guess, maybe the gateguards are in the Salisbury plain area.

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the third picture on the second page ( home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm ) a traffic sign is visible through the tracks of the tank. It is too blurry to read, but maybe someone can recognize the layout/nationality?

Another sign is visible in the sixth picture. Can't read it, but it looks military.

And the surrounding countryside looks British to me. Salisbury is definitely a possibility.

Guesses?
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the past (1999) we sometimes go there for gunnery training. At the entrance of Merrion camp there were also a Churchill and a Leopard 1.

Are these still there?

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Sorry, all the info I have comes from this book where I had seen the photo so I can't tell any more about the site.
Regards
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Mystery solved.

The first set of photos were taken at RAF Duxford (where they also have a Conqueror ARV).

The gate guardians - Conqueror and Centurion - are at the main entrance to the Castlemartin Range in Pembrokeshire, Wales. The road running by the gate is the B4319.

(I e-mailed the webmaster of the site where i found the photos. Since all photos were taken by him or his father, i think this information passes the reliability test.)
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Bull's-eye!!!
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- T13b1(be)
In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards


I believe Rob Griffin was a semi regular contributer to the 'old' discussion group, does anyone know if he made the move or is he AWOL?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:58 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Jinx
- bsmart
The Churchill was the last in the line of 'Shelled Ground Tanks' which goes back to the original Heavy Tanks of WWI. The long track length was meant to give it a good trench crossing ability combined with the ability to support infantry assaults across heavily shelled ground.



Well, i guess in the Churchill's case, any suspension is preferable to no suspension.


The larger wheels and longer travel suspension systems used by other tanks in WWII, Whether it was torsion bar, Christie, Volute spring suspension or some other were needed on those tanks because of the higher speed of the modern 'cruiser' tanks. The Churchill wasn't fast (neither was its ancester the Matilda) It's max speed was 15 MPH with a crosscountry speed of about 8 MPH. At those speeds it didn't need a complex suspension.



Soooo.....since it was never intended to go fast, they designed it so that it couldn't go fast? (I wonder how many committees it took to come up with that plan.....?)


The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension. The Churchill had small individual coil springs at each wheel station.



The following webpage has six photos of Conquerors. Maybe it's because it is so large a tank, but those wheels do look rather small to me.

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

But maybe it's just me.


I am leaving on a trip early in the morning so I'll be out of touch for a week. So if I don't respond to a thread you'll know why.



I hope you have a good trip!


Back from the trip, flew to Las Vegas (Didn't win big enough to retire or buy a tank museum) Went to the Grand Canyon and a couple other tourist sites, flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.

About the 'Since it wasn't supposed to go fast they made a suspension that couldn't go fast' idea. (since I don't want to try and figure how to interject replies with quotes)

I look at it differently. Any design is a balancing act. High speed suspensions are more complex (and there for harder and more expensive to produce) so if a vehicle will not need the capability why design it in? Once the design criteria for the Churchill was set the design team created a vehicle that met those criteria and did so in the most efficient manner. I have also assumed that production resource availability played some part in the design (after all it used commercial Bedford bus engines) and the smaller springs were probably easier to produce or more readily available than were the larger higher capacity springs needed for Christie suspensions (The high speed suspension used in the cruiser tanks of the same era)

I sometimes think that when we look back at the WWII era not enough emphasis is put on the production and logistical factors that played into the decision of creating the weapon systems of the time. Many look at the individual tanks and make statements such as 'The U.S. couldn't build a tank to compete with the German Tiger or Panther' or they give a condescending smirk about the Grant/Lee because it had the main gun in the hull.

What these narrow views don't take into consideration was the intense competition between competing priorities that the planners of all nations faced. What good does it do to build a fleet of heavy tanks that can take on anything in the world if there isn't enough shipping to get it to the battle zone. Or if there aren't enough escort ships to keep the transports from getting sunk enroute. So decisions are made based on assumptions and capabilities that ned up affecting battles that take place months or even years later. It is easy to look back and say 'The U.S. should have fielded a heavy tank with a high velocity 90mm gun' when looking ath the campaign in Northwest Europe in hindsight. But when planners were looking ahead in early to mid 1942 and seeing ships being sunk faster than they could be replaced in the North Atlantic, or seeing the Naval casualties in the Pacific it was more important that a balanced production system be implemented. This sometimes meant that equipment that was 'adequate' instead of 'optimal' was provided.

And yes there were mistakes made. Did we need all the Battleships and Aircraft Carriers that were built? What about the thousands of aircraft and tanks that were declared surplus without ever being issued out of the depots? The counterpoint was the ammunition shortage of late 1944 caused in part when Congressional pressure at seeing how much 'wastage' there was sitting in dumps when the North Africa Campaign was over caused production to be cut back in late '43/ early '44 only to find the pipeline emptied out once the Campaign through France and the Pacific campaign got rolling in high gear in mid'44

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. Laughing

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?


If it is, it shouldn't be. Makes you wonder about a lenth of wire and two short sticks, in those cases where the parents make NO attempt to manage the child.... Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
jch_in_uk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

"pretty rare early Churchill Mk.I (A 22) probably?? with 40 mm gun turret mounted and 76,2 mm hull mounted howitzer"


I think this vehicle is the one that used to reside in the children play area at the old Museum of Army Transport in Beverley. It was in a bit of a state in those days and I'm not sure how original it is.

JH
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum