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Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

Hi Gerry! Hi Folks!

- GerryChester

There is no question that Colonel Jarrett is correct - the Tigers of PzAbt.501 that were engaged by Churchills of my regiment the North Irish Horse, at Hunt's Gap in Tunisia, were painted dark green.

One wonders why the controversy ever came to be.

The way I understand the "controversy" is the "Historians" have not found any German documents ordering any Tiger tanks to be painted any color other than what is listed in the orders that are available for historical study.

Also there are no color photos showing any of the 501st tanks painted green.

As I understand it, a "Historian" needs multiple sources before something is considered fact.

The problem with Colonel Jarrett's report is that there seams to be no addational reports or photos to confirm the Colonel's claim.

For me, if Colonel Jarrett says the Tigers he saw were green, then as a model builder (wife says I am just a kit collector) that is good enough for me. Like Bob said, at that point, I join the crowd that tries of figure out just which green was used.

My 2 cents on Green Tigers.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

GerryChester · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 7

- bsmart

The 'Green Tigers' debate has a long history on this board (and elsewhere) The basic gist is that Tigers painted green were reported in Tunisia. The discussion then goes into what shade of green.

Hi Bob,

There is no question that Colonel Jarrett is correct - the Tigers of PzAbt.501 that were engaged by Churchills of my regiment the North Irish Horse, at Hunt's Gap in Tunisia, were painted dark green.

One wonders why the controversy ever came to be.

Cheers, Gerry

bsmart · Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

The 'Green Tigers' debate has a long history on this board (and elsewhere) The basic gist is that Tigers painted green were reported in Tunisia. The discussion then goes into what shade of green. There are stories of using captured French paint before the tanks were deployed, I think another version has it as Italian paint. But it always comes back to there is no 'documentation' or color photos to prove it. Now as I understand it one of the sources for the 'Green Tiger' story was Col Jarrett who ran the U.S. Technical Intelligence effort that shipped many of the items that are now in the Ordnance Museum collection.

My opinion is that if Jarrett reported green tigers, there were green tigers.

In the past a green tiger thread would run for days or even weeks with tempers flairing on both sides of the discussion.

The same would happen in a 'Did American 57mm AT guns have sabot ammunition after D-Day?' discussion.

As far as the 'Panther in Vietnam' discussion that one even used to come with pictures! (real pictures not doctored ones) The problem was that you couldn't see the suspension because of the tall grass. The vehicle was an M36 which without seeing the distinctive Sherman VVSS could pass for a Panther on first glance in a grainy picture from some angles. After all the Germans tried to pass off Panthers as American TDs during the Battle of the Bulge.

Some old AFVnews traditions

GerryChester · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 7

- Roy_A_Lingle

"......all we need is a photo of one of the the North African Green Tigers."

Hi Roy,

Are you referring to the Tigers of Pz.Abt501 which were painted Westeuropisches GrÃƒÂ¼n and saw service in Tunisia?

Cheers, Gerry

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

Now that we have found the missing Pink Panther first reported in the RVN, all we need is a photo of one of the the North African Green Tigers.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Dontos · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

Doug & Bob

The Panther II (with ausf G turret) in within the friendly confines of the Museum adjacient to the Tiger II.

The TLC Panther G is currently in the Motor Pool, having been moved from behind the Museum.

On that listing the Patton Museum should only have the Panther ausf G and the Panther II. There are no other 'CATS' here besides the Tiger II and the 2 Panthers.

German Armor here:
1- Panther ausf G
1- Panther II
2- Panzer III's
2- StuG III's
1- StuH 42
1- Jadgpanzer L70
1-38t Hetzer (G13)
1- Marder II
1- 38t munitionspanzer
1- 'Hummel'
1- Sd Kfz 223
1- Sd Kfz 234/4
1- Sd KfZ 251/9

Don

bsmart · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

There is one Panther (I think it is actually the Panther II) inside the new Museum. I think there was another Panther in need of a lot of TLC sitting behind the museum. At least that is what I remember from my trip last year. I would have to check the pictures on my machine at home to be sure

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

- bsmart

- JG300-Ascout

- bsmart

And where is that tank now located?

"Elsewhere." mrgreen

I think you'll see it this weekend (for me)

That is the 'tank park at Aberdeen, a long time ago.

Yah....I pretty much deduced that was APG sometime ago. Didn't know I'd be seeing that vehicle this week, though!

Back in '71, there was a Panther indoors at the old wooden Patton Museum...where is that vehicle today? I'm hoping to get pics of most of the vehicles I photographed when I was in AIT (I think the Stug III that was outside is gone now, however, replaced by another one or something).

bsmart · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

- JG300-Ascout

- bsmart

And where is that tank now located?

"Elsewhere." mrgreen

I think you'll see it this weekend Sad

(for me)

That is the 'tank park at Aberdeen, a long time ago.

Interesting things I notice about the picture

First of all the concrete pads were put in at Aberdeen in 1985 so the picture is before then (looking at the ground I think it may be well before then since other pictures show some of the heavier vehicles sinking into the ground before then)

Then there is what appears to be a brace under the gun barrel. Now I am pretty sure that that Panther is the one that I use on my tours to compare to the early Panther sitting to it's right to show how 'Product improvements' happen very quickly in war time. I don't remember that brace being there so I am curious as to whether I'm just oblivious or if something has changed (The panthers have not been through a refurb that I know of since the pads were put in) When I get back up to Aberdeen (if I ever get back there the way work is going) I need to look more closely at that tank.

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

- bsmart

And where is that tank now located?

"Elsewhere." Mr. Green

bsmart · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

And where is that tank now located?

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

- bsmart

Quiz - What is sitting to the left (The drivers left) of the Pink Panther?

Tiger II with some road wheels missing?

bsmart · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

Quiz - What is sitting to the left (The drivers left) of the Pink Panther?

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

Nice to see you and Manolo making some new friends here, Tanklord! Wink

Tanklord · Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: The "Pink Panther"

Manolo, you are much too kind. Okay guys, I will fess up. I was surfing on the Axis History Forum site and found these in their Lounge section, similar to the Officer's Club here. It is a pretty good site with a large section on armor, Allied and Axis. They pretty much try to stay apolitical. Here is the link: forum.axishistory.com/index.php

Hope everyone has had a good laugh.

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