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JimWeb

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

Mike:

Your African Leopard was probably one of the Italian licence built copies, and it had a Libyan connection. I'd seen the same story elsewhere.

It was an OF-40 - one of a number sold to Libya.

Cool

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

Mike:

Your African Leopard was probably one of the Italian licence built copies, and it had a Libyan connection. I'd seen the same story elsewhere.

mike_Duplessis · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 236

When - if ever - has the old Leopard I seen combat? I seem to recall them rolling into ex-Yugoslavia but I wouldn't call that warfighting so much as aggressive peacekeeping.

I heard rumors a couple decades ago a dead Russian crew was pulled out of a Leopard I destroyed during fighting in... um... Somalia? Chad? I believe rumor was that the Soviets had perloined a couple Leopard Is as the vehicles were being shipped around the world in cargo ships for trade shows. They wound up somewhere in Africa undergoing combat trials. At least that was the tale.

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

- Jason_Bobrowich

I forgot about the Dutch PZH 2000s. If I am correct they have only recently been deployed there over the last couple of months. I have seen a couple of images of a PZH 2000s in Afghanistan still in the NATO three colour cam and being used for a fire mission at FOB Martello near Kandahar. In one image there is so much desert dust on the vehicle it looks like the hull and turret sides are desert tan with the turret front, barrel, and road wheels still NATO cam.

An article I found stated there are only two PZH 2000s deployed so far. How many are slated?

Any links to images would be appreciated.

AFAIK there is one at Tarin Kowt and one at Darea Wood (spelling??) with one acting as reserve at one of these two bases. For what I have heard they have almost every day firing missions with satisfying results.

So far I didn't have seen any pictures of them.

Regards

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

The Scimitar is:

Why didn't you say that in the first place! I had forgotten CVR(T) was a vehicle type name for the Scorpion later upgraded to the Scimitar recon tanks.

I went looking for CVR(T) in my AFV referencs and none of them had one. Once I saw the Scimitar photos in the link you provided, I was able to find it listed under the Scorpion tank.

No question on my part now, I agree that bad photo is a Scimitar. For a Warrior I was thinking that turret was a bit to far to the rear, but gave in thinking it was just part of a bad view of the vehicle.

No longer confuzed on this one. Smile

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

The Paras most likely have the LAW80...it replaced the Carl G and the M72 within the British Forces.

They are also most likely using the L2A1 (ILAW) Interim Light Anti-tank Weapon...it is the British designation for the Swedish made AT4.

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

The Paras' battles in Sangin typify the problem that seems to be developing in Afghanistan. The NATO troops have been incredibly professional at the light infantry air-land battle. Exactly the way the doctrine was written, and the books were written.

Show up with well disciplined troops, excellent radios and supply lines, and adequate mobility. Battles are fought as meeting engagements of slogging Westerners bump into small enemy parties, maybe vectored in by comprehensive intelligence. Use Chinooks to get close, Blackhawks for CASEVAC and CAS for punch. But the Taliban seem more and more willing to stand and deliver, as the video says to the point of besieging firebases. When the defenders run out of ammo or supplies, what are their options?

The battles in Panjwayi and Zhari district look like three-fourths of a conventional war. Arty, engineers and combat infantry, but no tanks. My guess is someone in NDHQ came to that conclusion a lot earlier than I did.

The Paras look like they have .50s on their Land Rovers and 60mm mortars. They might even have 66mm M72s, but they don't look much heavier than light infantry. Not their fault, just their doctrine.

Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

I forgot about the Dutch PZH 2000s. If I am correct they have only recently been deployed there over the last couple of months. I have seen a couple of images of a PZH 2000s in Afghanistan still in the NATO three colour cam and being used for a fire mission at FOB Martello near Kandahar. In one image there is so much desert dust on the vehicle it looks like the hull and turret sides are desert tan with the turret front, barrel, and road wheels still NATO cam.

An article I found stated there are only two PZH 2000s deployed so far. How many are slated?

Any links to images would be appreciated.

Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

The British Brigade in Afghanistan is the 16th Air Assault Brigade. Very fast moving and has had one Squadron of the Household Cavalry Regiment for Recce support for the past 15 years.

I watched the video again several times and am convinced it is a Scimitar. Recognition features- low, sloped front hull, turret set back on the hull, hull stowage box extending from the hull rear.

The Scimitars in use are the Scimitar LEP(Life Extension Program). They included a whole bunch of improvements including a new thermal sight for the gunner.

I was lucky enough to command Scimitars in Bosnia as a Canadian Sgt. in 1994 during an exchange with the Light Dragoons. I was also an AFV recognition instructor while I was in the Army.

Not so say there aren't Warriors in Afghanistan, but not in that video. If anyone has any info on Warriors in Afghanistan I would like to hear and see it.

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

- Neil_Baumgardner

In fact, has anyone deployed tanks into Afghanistan previously? I know Warriors have been deployed, but tanks?

Neil

OK, its not a tank, but the Netherlands deployed the PzH2000 at their bases in Uruzgan. They have the size of a tank.......

The ''generals'' asked for Leopards to deploy to Uruzgan but unfortunately the political leadership decided that it was too agressive. ''We'' were there to rebuild and helping the locals and not destroying it.

I think thats why they keep me in the Netherlands Wink

Neil_Baumgardner

The Scimitar is:
www.army.mod.uk/equipm...av_scm.htm

Neil

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Dont ask me why there is a Warrior operating with the Paras, probably some detached firepower for them. I suppose it could be a CVR(T), its hard to tell from this grainy video (the 'Warrior' is seen at about the 1:50 mark):

news.bbc.co.uk/media/a...6x9_nb.ram

I think it's a Warrior.

Is the CVR(T) still in active service? None of my modern AFV books list it. I was only able to find photos and details in a 1976 issue of Jane's.

Interesting,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Neil_Baumgardner

Gotcha, thanks.

Neil

Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

Neil,

Thanks for the link to the footage. The BBC news footage shows a Scimitar CVR(T) not a Warrior MICV.

The Scimitars belong to D Squadron, Household Cavalry Regiment in Afghanistan and very obviously supporting the Paras in their ongoing battles.

A2_Prius · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 112

Regardless of the means by which the Leos are to be transported to Afghanistan, one has to wonder whether they'll arrive before Parliament recalls the Canadian force from there . . .

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