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palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

To Jens_O_Mehner: When speaking about Marder and BMP-1 I do not to argue with you but I think ten pre-production Marders passed through troop trials between 1968-1969 and first production vehicle was issued to Bundeswehr in 1971. Milan ATGW was added in 1975. BMP-1 appeared in 1967 during Red square parade and in 1970 it was adopted by ?SLA as OT vz.70 (APC Mk.70) and then renamed BVP-1 (translation of BMP). I can remember fancy plywood and canvas mock-up superstructures fixed to the top of our first vehiclesâ€¦

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

Jens_O_Mehner, when speaking about Marder and BMP-1 I think ten pre-production Marders passed through troop trials between 1968-1969 and first production vehicle was issued to Bundeswehr in 1971. Milan ATGW was added in 1975. BMP-1 appeared in 1967 during Red square parade and in 1970 it was adopted by ?SLA as OT vz.70 (APC Mk.70) and then renamed BVP-1 (translation of BMP). I can remember fancy plywood and canvas mock-up superstructures fixed to the top of our first vehiclesâ€¦

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

Jens, when speaking about Marder and BMP-1 I think ten pre-production Marders passed through troop trials between 1968-1969 and first production vehicle was issued to Bundeswehr in 1971. Milan ATGW was added in 1975. BMP-1 appeared in 1967 during Red square parade and in 1970 it was adopted by ?SLA as OT vz.70 (APC Mk.70) and then renamed BVP-1 (translation of BMP).
I can remember fancy plywood and canvas mock-up superstructures fixed to the top of our first vehiclesâ€¦

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

Jens, when speaking about Marder and BMP-1 I think ten pre-production Marders passed through troop trials between 1968-1969 and first production vehicle was issued to Bundeswehr in 1971. Milan ATGW was added in 1975. BMP-1 appeared in 1967 during Red square parade and in 1970 it was adopted by ?SLA as OT vz.70 (APC Mk.70) and then renamed BVP-1 (translation of BMP).
I can remember fancy plywood and canvas mock-up superstructures fixed to the top of our first vehiclesâ€¦

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

There have been stories in the Canadian military press saying there are "several M113s" in Afghanistan. The latest was a story about packaged containers with sets of tools and spares.

Sabot · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

- Roy_A_Lingle

That moved the M113 from front line mission to supporting functions. It's wasn't totally replaced by the Bradley because the Army could not afford enough Bradleys.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

The M113 family was never intended to totally be replaced by the Bradley. The ambulance, mortar carrier, engineer version and command post missions were never intended to be replaced by a Bradley variant. Although, now 20 some odd years later, there are starting to be some support variants, but that's more a function of the availability of excess Bradleys that can be converted due to the downsized force.

Dontos · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

- Jens_O_Mehner

Aah,
fond memories of Bonnland... Sweet bird of youth, where hast thou flown?

I'd have kept the secret, but it seems our Opsec is not in good hands.

Cheers,

Jens O.

A Great time, but valuable lessons learned.....

1) The Uzi beats the hell out of the G3 in Urban environment... Mr. Green

2) Fresh cold cuts and brotchen for Breakfast are awesome !!!
3) The hot field chow ( a greenish, split-pea stew with franks REALLY SUCKS!!!
4) The 'ABGANGER' traditions each evening challanged even my drinking ability (!?!) Shocked

5) During an early morning training assault, while suffering effects from the night before, DO NOT DRINK THE CLEAR LIQUID IN THE 1 LITER COKE BOTTLE, OFFERED BY THE PLATOON SGT.....(IT AIN'T WATER!!!) (apperently it was 'Apple Corn'....!!!)

All in all, one of the greatest 10 day training events I ever volunteered for...

Don

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

Jens_O_Mehner · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

- Dontos

Jens

Here is a little known secret.....

I trained with 'our' German partnership unit, 2/131st PzGrenBtln.

Keep this between you & me......

Opps...

Aaah,
fond memories of Bonnland... Sweet bird of youth, where hast thou flown? Mr. Green

I'd have kept the secret, but it seems our Opsec is not in good hands. Laughing

Cheers,

Jens O.

Jens_O_Mehner · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Jens! Hi Folks!

Not sure how the Germans used the HS30, but I was thinking about vehicles with gun ports so the infantry could stay under armor. The HS30 seams more like a M113 with the guys standing up in the cargo hatch and shooting over the top of the hull.

Hope this may clear up my muddy chain of thinking.
Cough cough, sorry to hear you have a cold also. I am just getting over one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

OK,

I thought you had a automatic gun-turret and closed hull among your criteria, the HS30 admittedly lacks a bit in the fire under cover-department. Still, Project Marder was laid in 1959, markedly predating the BMP. Cool

Cheers, and get well soon

Jens O.

Dontos · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

- Jens_O_Mehner

Cough cough,

Roy, I believe you will find that the Marder and its predecessor, the HS30, predate the BMP somewhat- after all, there was a Panzergrenadier tradition to follow...

Cheers,

Jens O.

Jens

Here is a little known secret.....

I trained with 'our' German partnership unit, 2/131st PzGrenBtln.

Keep this between you & me......

Opps...

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

Hi Jens! Hi Folks!

- Jens_O_Mehner

Cough cough,

Roy, I believe you will find that the Marder and its predecessor, the HS30, predate the BMP somewhat- after all, there was a Panzergrenadier tradition to follow...

Cheers,

Jens O.

Not sure how the Germans used the HS30, but I was thinking about vehicles with gun ports so the infantry could stay under armor. The HS30 seams more like a M113 with the guys standing up in the cargo hatch and shooting over the top of the hull.

Hope this may clear up my muddy chain of thinking.
Cough cough, sorry to hear you have a cold also. I am just getting over one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Jens_O_Mehner · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

Cough cough,

Roy, I believe you will find that the Marder and its predecessor, the HS30, predate the BMP somewhat- after all, there was a Panzergrenadier tradition to follow... Cool

Cheers,

Jens O.

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: M113A3 ID

Hi V100! Hi Folks!

- HellonwheelsV100

Ah yes....
I drove the M113A3 when I was in the Army. Seems like there aren't too many of them around. I always see pics of the A2s, but hardly ever the A3s. Was it due to the Bradley overtaking everything back then?

The M113 was used by mech infantry as a 'Battlefield Taxi' and was replaced by the M2 'Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle'. A function that was first used by the Soviets and their BMP vehicle. Followed by the West Germans and their Marder.

That moved the M113 from front line mission to supporting functions. It's wasn't totally replaced by the Bradley because the Army could not afford enough Bradleys.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

HellonwheelsV100 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 15, 2007 Posts: 67

Ah yes....
I drove the M113A3 when I was in the Army. Seems like there aren't too many of them around. I always see pics of the A2s, but hardly ever the A3s. Was it due to the Bradley overtaking everything back then?

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