±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 808
Total: 808
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Downloads
34: Member Screenshots
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: Downloads
43: Photo Gallery
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Photo Gallery
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Your Account
65: Community Forums
66: CPGlang
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Your Account
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Photo Gallery
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Your Account
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Downloads
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Your Account
103: Community Forums
104: Downloads
105: Home
106: Statistics
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: CPGlang
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Downloads
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: CPGlang
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: CPGlang
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Home
200: CPGlang
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Member Screenshots
207: Community Forums
208: Member Screenshots
209: Photo Gallery
210: Your Account
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Member Screenshots
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: CPGlang
222: Photo Gallery
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: News
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Community Forums
241: Your Account
242: Community Forums
243: CPGlang
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Statistics
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Your Account
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: CPGlang
266: CPGlang
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: CPGlang
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Downloads
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Home
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Downloads
312: Home
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: CPGlang
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Downloads
328: Member Screenshots
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Member Screenshots
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Member Screenshots
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Downloads
344: Community Forums
345: Downloads
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: News Archive
350: Photo Gallery
351: Photo Gallery
352: Home
353: Home
354: Photo Gallery
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: CPGlang
358: Photo Gallery
359: Photo Gallery
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Downloads
366: Community Forums
367: News Archive
368: Home
369: CPGlang
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: CPGlang
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Home
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Downloads
400: Photo Gallery
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Your Account
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Statistics
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Member Screenshots
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: News Archive
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: News
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Your Account
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: News Archive
445: Photo Gallery
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: News
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: CPGlang
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Your Account
464: Community Forums
465: Home
466: Home
467: Community Forums
468: News Archive
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Community Forums
475: Statistics
476: Photo Gallery
477: Photo Gallery
478: CPGlang
479: CPGlang
480: Downloads
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Downloads
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Photo Gallery
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Member Screenshots
526: Your Account
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Photo Gallery
530: Home
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Member Screenshots
542: News
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Your Account
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Member Screenshots
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Downloads
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Home
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Your Account
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: CPGlang
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Your Account
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: News Archive
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Photo Gallery
615: Community Forums
616: Home
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: CPGlang
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Photo Gallery
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Community Forums
637: Photo Gallery
638: Community Forums
639: Photo Gallery
640: Downloads
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Photo Gallery
647: Community Forums
648: Downloads
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: News
652: Community Forums
653: Home
654: Photo Gallery
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Photo Gallery
661: Community Forums
662: Member Screenshots
663: Community Forums
664: Downloads
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Member Screenshots
670: Photo Gallery
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Member Screenshots
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Community Forums
682: Photo Gallery
683: Community Forums
684: Home
685: Statistics
686: Photo Gallery
687: Downloads
688: Photo Gallery
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Downloads
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Downloads
707: Community Forums
708: Downloads
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Home
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Downloads
716: Photo Gallery
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Photo Gallery
725: Photo Gallery
726: Home
727: Photo Gallery
728: Community Forums
729: Home
730: Photo Gallery
731: Community Forums
732: Home
733: Community Forums
734: Downloads
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Photo Gallery
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Photo Gallery
744: Community Forums
745: Photo Gallery
746: Community Forums
747: Home
748: Community Forums
749: Home
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Photo Gallery
753: Statistics
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Downloads
757: Community Forums
758: Photo Gallery
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Member Screenshots
762: Community Forums
763: Community Forums
764: Photo Gallery
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Photo Gallery
777: Home
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: Home
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Home
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Home
790: Community Forums
791: Photo Gallery
792: Community Forums
793: Downloads
794: Home
795: Photo Gallery
796: CPGlang
797: Photo Gallery
798: Photo Gallery
799: Photo Gallery
800: Home
801: Community Forums
802: Community Forums
803: Community Forums
804: Community Forums
805: Photo Gallery
806: Home
807: Community Forums
808: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Stryker MGS
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Stryker MGS

Hi CIA Agents and all other folks!

Found the following photos over at the the US Army mil web site. Looks like the MGS is finally getting into the hands of the crews who will be using them. These photos are of the 1st SBCT, 25th ID at Ft Wainwright.



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7618



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7619

My 2 cents, think of the MGS as an upgrade from the M151 jeep with a M40/106mm RR carring six rounds of HEAT. Don't think of it as a down grade from a MBT.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
mumfordlibrarian
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane. In fact it was pretty much being slowly taken out of the active force when there was a competition for a new NATO standard strike plane. Lockheed took the basic shape of the F-104 and redisgned everyrhing about it. New airframe, new wings, new cockpit new (upward firing) ejection seat (The original F-104 ejection seat ejected downward, not a good idea for a strike plane that would operate primarily down on the deck). This was designated the F-104G (except in Canada where I think it was the F-104D but I will have to check) The F-104G got a bad reputation early on. It was later figured out that most of the problem was that the plane was much hotter than the F-84s and G-91s that most of the pilots had been used to. As pilot training and experience went up the track record got better. But thinking the late model F-104s that were used as strike aircraft were the same ones as the early F-104C that the USAF used is like saying the M46 and the M60 are both Patton tanks

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


at the 2006 Armor Symposium, I met up with one of my former TC's from one of my tank platoons. An excellent NCO who really knew his stuff. He had been on the MGS for a couple of years. Amoung other things he simply reinforced the point that the MGS, IS NOT A TANK Shocked , and its primary function is 'Infantry Support".

I equated the parallels of its stated mission, to of the Ontos. Totally dedicated to the role of 'Infantry Support'. (Although the Ontos was classified as a 'Tank Destroyer'.

The problem I think is the mistaken belief that the MGS is a subsitute/replacement for the AGS or even the Sheridan.

The Air Force analogy is a bit off. I was actually surprised that Bob didn't write that.... Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

(ROY you are hereby fined 50 COOL points!! Cool Don't let that happen again..!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane.

Shocked Say what? Confused
Bob, this VERY OLD JARHEAD is going to have to bring you up to date on some very old history.

During 1966 into the first half of 1967, an Air Force F104 Starfighter unit based at Da Nang, RVN was sending those birds up with ONE BOMB under each wing.

Also this old Scout must report that during one FTX at Hohenfels FRG, sometime around 1975 or 1976, while conducting Castle Guard for the Battalion TOC, the TOC was attacked by four West German F104s. I would guess that if those German F104s were conducting that type of mission during peace time, they were planning on using those A/Cs for that type of mission against Warsaw Pack AFVs.

I though about using the F4, but I went with the F104 because I feel it is possible the best example of something build to do one thing and commanders turned around and used it for something it could just barely do.

Some of my very old history. Sorry no pictures to help back up my claims. Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Not doubting your claims. Let me check a couple sources this evening about the Vitenam connection.

The German connection is no problem. That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability. To bring it full circle the Italians later reworked the F-104G design with new radar and missles into the F-104S which was a primary all weather interceptor that even carried AIM-7 Sparrow missles in addition to the AIM-9 Sidewinders that were always available on the F-104G

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability.


Say what? Shocked Strike Fighter! Shocked Shocked
Will that just shows you all how little I know about things with wings!

I hope you find something on the miss use of the F104 in Vietnam. I know their were not flying CAS missions for the Marines, so I guess they were either going out west or up north.

Time for bed, later folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

"G-71 coming to assist element of second platoon, over!" Laughing

(This is an excerpt from a longer article, Joe Baugher is a recognized source, listed at bottom)


"The F-104C (Lockheed Model 483-04-05) was the tactical strike version of the Starfighter. It was designed to meet the needs of the Tactical Air Command (TAC), which had earlier found the F-104A to be unacceptable because of its low endurance and its inability to carry significant offensive payloads.

In April of 1965, a single squadron (the 476th TFS) of the 479th TFW deployed with their F-104Cs to Kung Kuan AB in Taiwan, with regular rotations to the forward base at Da Nang Air Base in South Vietnam. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters. They flew these missions armed with their single M61A1 20-mm cannon and four AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. The effect of F-104 deployment upon NVN and PRC MiG operations was immediate and dramatic--NVN MiGs soon learned to avoid contact with USAF strikes being covered by F-104s. During the entire deployment of the 476th only two fleeting encounters between F-104Cs and enemy fighters occurred.

As the MiG threat abated, the 476th TFS was tasked with some weather reconnaissance and ground attack missions. A few of these were against targets in North Vietnam, but most of them were close air-support missions against targets in the South under forward air controller direction. The F-104s were fairly successful in this role, gaining a reputation for accuracy in their cannon fire and their bombing and capable of quite rapid reaction times in response to requests for air support. During this period, the 476th F-104s maintained an in-commission rate of 94.7%, a testimony both to the quality of 476th maintenance personnel and to the simplicity and maintainability of F-104 systems. However, an F-104 went down during a sortie 100 nm SSW of DaNang on June 29. The pilot was rescued with minor injuries.

The 436th TFS assumed the 476th's commitment in DaNang on 11 July, and the 436th began flying combat sorties the next day. Although a few MiGCAP missions were flown, the majority of the missions were quick-reaction close-air support missions in support of ground troops. On July 23, Capt. Roy Blakely attempted to crash-land his battle-damaged F-104C at Chu Lai. Blakely successfully set his aircraft down gear-up, but died when his F-104 swerved off the runway into a sand dune. "

Source: home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Looks like I blew it

I haven't found the book I'm looking for but that's okay. I thought the F-104s had been deployed as Anti Mig cover but not used as attack aircraft. Part of my confusion was mis remembering a picture of an F-106 with a bomb under it's wing that was done as a joke on the commander of Air Defence Command. PACAF F-102s were deployed to Bien Hoa and Da Nang in Vietnam and Udorn and Don Muang in Thailand as Air Defence but eventually withdrawn by 1969 without ever engaging in combat.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes

Oh Doug thanks for reminding me about Joe Baughers aircraft pages. I had been there before but in a series of machine replacements had lost the links. His coverage is excellent. This is his page on the F04s acceptance as a NATO strike fighter.
home.att.net/~jbaugher...04_11.html
He leaves some questions unanswered that are actually well known. Let's just say that there were cases of Bribery involving Lockheed and some European officials that were strong enough that Lockheed now has a VERY STRONG ethics program and annual training about 'Truth in Negotiations', 'Foreign Corrupt Practices' and other ethics courses are now mandatory annual training throughout Lockheed Martin

Oh I found it interesting that of the 722 Starfighters ordered for the USAF only 296 were delivered before the contract was cancelled. The NATO deal was all AFTER that.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- bsmart
.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes



Scouts always stand to be corrected...where you went so horribly wrong was bring to one under fire without keeping in mind that since scouting is their primary function, they normally will not engage unless they know they've got another element in position to bring mutually supporting fire to bear in case it's needed. Laughing ( "G" Troop emerges victorious.)

But hey, you're Air Force, how could you could know? Don on the other hand.....(and does this mean Roy gets his "cool points" back? Mr. Green )

I think somewhere in there the article also notes that F104's also got credit for no air-to-air kills in VN, but that needs to be double checked.

AND....I owe my familiarity with Joe Baugher's pages to....Jeff Button, an 11C turned Transportation (where'd he go, anyway?), so there you go...we be's multidiciplinary at the AFV DG!


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


There already are several 'floating' around the AFV DG.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Mr. Green

sorry....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


I don't know about swabbies but there is at least one COASTIE in the group (Someone has to be able to do the maritime safety check before we try and swim an M113)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])


Last edited by bsmart on Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hello fellow CIA Agents and other folks!

To the TC of G71, super thanks for the overwatching support as I took some time out to get some much needed sleep. Well done Sir! That was some heavy duty intell reporting.

To Dontos, did I lose 50 cool points for talking about things with wings or was because I caught you off guard about the history of the F104 in Vietnam?

As for the subject of "swabbies". Well lets see, they have "V" things that are armored and are used to fight from. I would call those super heavy AFVs and therefor more than qualified to be members of this "multidiciplinary" CIA team.

Thanks for the backup G71! "Allons"
Sgt, Scouts Out1

P.S.
As the number ONE conducter of "Alertness Tests" to see if anyone is paying attention to my "flobs ups" I must say that someone has always been there to correct my misinformation so other members will get the correct facts. For all those times, I thank you all.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum