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Panzer IV Project
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Garry_Redmon
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Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:28 am
Post subject: Panzer IV Project

We had a work day this past Saturday and were able to work on the Panzer IV for two or three hours. The outside is not in bad shape, but the interior needs a lot of work. When I volunteered to be project manager, I hadn't seen the complete condition of the inside. We have a lot of work to do and a short time to do it in. The deadline for completion is May 2009, but since we have one work day a month, that's only 8 days!

The interior has a thick layer of rust and debris covering the floor. Even after a lot was swept up, there is still a lot more that needs to come out with a shop vac. There are areas of the turret basket floor and adjoining decking that are rusted through and may have to be replaced if there is time. Everything is either tack welded or rusted solid or both.

The main problem is that the drive train is seized and we're not sure where it is. It could be the transmission, brakes, final drive or a combination. The tracks are completely rusted together which adds to the problem. Until we get it rolling, we can't put it in the shop in better working conditions.

I could go on, but it's best if you go to www.armorfortheages.com and see new photos taken on Saturday of its condition.

Garry

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the_shadock
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Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer IV Project

Nice pictures, thanks for letting us know all the details about the restoration and the technical problems you have to face.

Pierre-Olivier

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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer IV Project

We need a big tarp on that baby, if any restoration is attempted.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer IV Project

There was a show on one of the history channels that speculated on why things happened the way they did in history. Whether Mauser 98s or Moisin Nagants work better in bitter cold? Which was a better tank for the Eastern Front, the Panther or the T34? The technologists showed how the Panther final drive and transmissions were a complicated series of finely built assemblies. They could not be repaired in forward areas, but needed more sophisticated and better equipped shops than the T34 did. Therefore, the T34 was a better tank in the opinion of the show's producers.

The object lesson here is to be careful in assessing the PzIV's immobility. Don't expect to crack the rust by moving the tank on its tracks, like you might jump-start a car. If the PzIV was built anything like the Panther, you might do irrevocable harm to some finely meshed little gear somewhere, and you'll never know what is going wrong. Better consult another collector who has experience with PzIV transmission troubleshooting before getting yourself into trouble.
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer IV Project

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
There was a show on one of the history channels that speculated on why things happened the way they did in history. Whether Mauser 98s or Moisin Nagants work better in bitter cold? Which was a better tank for the Eastern Front, the Panther or the T34? The technologists showed how the Panther final drive and transmissions were a complicated series of finely built assemblies. They could not be repaired in forward areas, but needed more sophisticated and better equipped shops than the T34 did. Therefore, the T34 was a better tank in the opinion of the show's producers.

The object lesson here is to be careful in assessing the PzIV's immobility. Don't expect to crack the rust by moving the tank on its tracks, like you might jump-start a car. If the PzIV was built anything like the Panther, you might do irrevocable harm to some finely meshed little gear somewhere, and you'll never know what is going wrong. Better consult another collector who has experience with PzIV transmission troubleshooting before getting yourself into trouble.


Well, the Panzer IV was pushed a few feet into its present location by an M88, but, no, we're not going to drag it across the motor pool until it starts rolling. Smile

The Panzer IV track is dry pin, so there are no lube points like you would find on German halftracks. Generous amounts of penetrating oil will be applied to the tracks. If the transmission is the problem, then disconnecting it from the final drive should do the trick. If that doesn't work, then the brakes will be checked. If that doesn't do it, then we are faced with breaking track, removing drive sprockets and final drive housings to get to the gears. That is something that I hope we don't have to do.

I appreciate and understand your concern about doing damage to the vehicle. That is something the museum is also concerned with and would never condone. The Panzer IV is just going to be cosmetically restored for display inside the museum. It will never be restored to operational condition by us. Fort Benning can try if they want to. Laughing

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the_shadock
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Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer IV Project

http://www.armorfortheages.com/PMVehicleList.htm

Forgot to update this page with the brand new Pz IV ?

Wink

P-O

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer IV Project

Glad to have had the chance to spread perhaps the one thing I know about Panthers, and to learn something new about PzIVs - that they are dry pin tracks. Maybe that is why in the WWII grunts' stories they always heard the German vehicles before seeing them.
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