±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 378
Total: 378
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: News
05: Home
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Downloads
09: Downloads
10: Photo Gallery
11: Statistics
12: Downloads
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Home
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: CPGlang
26: Your Account
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Home
30: Photo Gallery
31: Photo Gallery
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: News
35: Your Account
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Photo Gallery
49: Home
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Photo Gallery
57: Downloads
58: Home
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Your Account
63: Community Forums
64: Downloads
65: News
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: CPGlang
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: CPGlang
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: News
83: Photo Gallery
84: Photo Gallery
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: CPGlang
90: Member Screenshots
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Your Account
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Tell a Friend
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: News
111: News
112: Your Account
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Your Account
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Downloads
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Home
133: Photo Gallery
134: Photo Gallery
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Downloads
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Downloads
142: Photo Gallery
143: Home
144: Home
145: Downloads
146: Home
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Downloads
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Photo Gallery
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: CPGlang
169: Community Forums
170: Your Account
171: Downloads
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Home
181: Downloads
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Your Account
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: News
189: Photo Gallery
190: Downloads
191: Photo Gallery
192: CPGlang
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Your Account
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Your Account
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Photo Gallery
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: News
214: Your Account
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Your Account
218: Downloads
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Photo Gallery
229: Member Screenshots
230: Downloads
231: Treasury
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Downloads
242: Member Screenshots
243: Home
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: CPGlang
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Home
254: CPGlang
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: Downloads
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: News
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Downloads
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Downloads
291: Photo Gallery
292: Photo Gallery
293: Photo Gallery
294: Home
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: CPGlang
306: Home
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Member Screenshots
310: Photo Gallery
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Downloads
314: Downloads
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Member Screenshots
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Search
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Your Account
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Your Account
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Home
339: Home
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Supporters
345: Home
346: Downloads
347: Photo Gallery
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: News
351: Community Forums
352: News
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Your Account
356: Community Forums
357: News
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Downloads
362: Downloads
363: Downloads
364: Photo Gallery
365: CPGlang
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Downloads
370: Photo Gallery
371: News
372: Member Screenshots
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Downloads
378: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Panther II
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Smashy
A small series of 24 Ausf G were produced in 1944 fitted with the steel road wheels and I think this was one of them.

The 'Panther II' designation may actually be a mistake?


Two different beasties.
The steel wheeled Panther G were used by the LSSAH in the Ardennes,
libellule.heavy.jp/sit...herSW.html


The Panther II was very similar, www.achtungpanzer.com/...her-ii.htm

Panther dimensions
Lenght: 6.88m (w/o the gun)
8.86m (with the gun) 6.88m (w/o the gun)
8.86m (with the gun)
Width: 3.40m 3.40m
Height: 2.98m 2.98m

Panther II Dimensions
Length: 6.60m (w/o the gun)
-.–m (with the gun)
Width: 3.40m
Height: 2.90m

The key is, of course, the Fahrgestell number wrote large across the glacis plate.
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Smashy
A small series of 24 Ausf G were produced in 1944 fitted with the steel road wheels and I think this was one of them.



The 'Panther II' designation may actually be a mistake?


I am not sure I'm following the argument here, or are we talking about different tanks. The tank at Fort Knox doesn't have Panther suspension or Panther steel road wheels, it has Panther II suspension.

Unique ID 71: Fort Knox Panther II

In a nutshell the Panther and Tiger were characterized by interleaved roadwheel suspension and the Panther II and Tiger II were characterized by simpler overlapped suspension.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:30 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Koluchiy
Thank you for answer.
Do you have (or can make) some engine photos?


Koluchiy

I'll try to get some 'open hatch' photos, if I have time on my next 'behind the walls' visit. I generally only have an hour or so of 'play time' when I do my visits. From this, I try to do one or two detailed photo sessions.

This might take a week or two due to a rather long list of 'TO DO' tasks that I am currently working on.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Panther Schmalturm Turret

the only Panther Schmalturm Turret is at Bovington
Dennis


jtrowbridge5.smugmug.c...oTx#P-1-10
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

We await Dontos's measurement of the armour thickness's....

Some images of the suspension would be nice?

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

Here's some pictures of the suspension www.peachmountain.com/..._tank.aspx and I'm pretty sure the armor thickness is documented somewhere on the Internet.


- Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:40 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

In a brief conversation with an 'Officially Informed Source', (... an OIS...!?), I inquired about the possibility of a 'wayward' Panther 'G' hull without a turret here at Ft Knox.

Here is what I learned, IRT the 'Story of the Panther II':

When the Panther II was captured, it did not have a turret mounted, but 'weighted' compensation plates in lieu of a turret, for test purposes. It was 'tagged' and transported to APG, where it went through technical inspection.

In the early 70's, the Panther II arrived at Ft Knox. It had a turret, the late model 'G' turret (w/ 'chin' armor).

A project was begun to restore an operational Panther, the Panther II was selected of the two 'Panthers' now at Ft Knox. Both vehicles were totally disassembled, the parts missing from the Panther II, needed for a complete restoration, were to be taken off of the Panther 'G'.

At some point during the restoration, (circa 1973...?)it was found that due to the increased armor of the 'Panther II', certain common hull parts could not be used from the 'donor' Panther. The interior dimensions were different.

The project was eventually completed with the introduction of the operationally restored 'Panther II'.

For some unknown reason, the remaining parts, were crated up and stored, instead of being remounted back into the Panther 'G', resulting in a fairly disassembled 'shell' of a tank, which is the current condition of the Panther 'G'.

So...., if there is (or was) a SN matching Panther ausf G hull to the turret of the Panther II (SN 121455) it would be ( or have been..) at APG.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:03 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

Thanks Don, among other things the different interior dimensions confirm it's a Panther II
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

There was never a doubt in my mind.


- Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- JeffStringer
There was never a doubt in my mind.

Neither in mine, but I try to keep my mind open.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

As has been noted before, a quick look at the suspension and a read of the Fr number reveals all.
I've never seen any pictures of it "as captured", with weights, there's several of the VK3001, including some taken at Paderborn (?), where it's lurking behind Bovingdon's Tiger II & Jagdtiger, with its weights mounted.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Dontos
In a brief conversation with an 'Officially Informed Source', (... an OIS...!?), I inquired about the possibility of a 'wayward' Panther 'G' hull without a turret here at Ft Knox.

Here is what I learned, IRT the 'Story of the Panther II':

When the Panther II was captured, it did not have a turret mounted, but 'weighted' compensation plates in lieu of a turret, for test purposes. It was 'tagged' and transported to APG, where it went through technical inspection.

In the early 70's, the Panther II arrived at Ft Knox. It had a turret, the late model 'G' turret (w/ 'chin' armor).

A project was begun to restore an operational Panther, the Panther II was selected of the two 'Panthers' now at Ft Knox. Both vehicles were totally disassembled, the parts missing from the Panther II, needed for a complete restoration, were to be taken off of the Panther 'G'.

At some point during the restoration, (circa 1973...?)it was found that due to the increased armor of the 'Panther II', certain common hull parts could not be used from the 'donor' Panther. The interior dimensions were different.

The project was eventually completed with the introduction of the operationally restored 'Panther II'.

For some unknown reason, the remaining parts, were crated up and stored, instead of being remounted back into the Panther 'G', resulting in a fairly disassembled 'shell' of a tank, which is the current condition of the Panther 'G'.

So...., if there is (or was) a SN matching Panther ausf G hull to the turret of the Panther II (SN 121455) it would be ( or have been..) at APG.

Regards
Don


"Parts cannibalization" had always been part of my understanding, but didn't know which way the flow was.

In 1971, the only Panther on display was inside the old Patton Museum and I crawled all over it, but took no pictures. It had a fairly complete turret (from the outside) and I think track on both sides. I might be wrong about the track. IIRC, it was gray.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

UPDATE:

It seems that during the restoration (in 1973..) when both Panthers were disassembled, there was a 'turret swap'. This is based on information gathered today while in RMP.

The Panther 'G' currently in RMP is officially listed as SN 121455. That is the same Fahrgestell Nr as found on the Panther II turret.

This means that the actual turret on the RMP Panther 'G', is the turret which originally arrived here at Ft Knox with (mounted on...) the Panther II.

It is unknown if the data plates are located in the Panther 'G', but I will try to gain access to the tanks interior to photograph it, and hopefully locate the data plates. Perhaps we can then determine the turret SN, and possibly determine where the turret originated.

BTW: The engine in the Panther II is the rebuilt engine from the Panther 'G'. The original Panther II engine is crated up in storage at RMP.

Obviously, more to follow
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

Here are two pictures from an ebay posting claimed to show the schmalturm reportedly taken to Aberdeen, that has apparently been lost to time



_________________
The only good skwerril is a dead un
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

But you know, no turret was ever built for the Panther II. It was reported to be similar to the schmalturm being built for the Panther F but the Panther II project was dropped in early 1943 before any of that was developed.


- Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum