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Training Tank Only
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

ew, ew, ew,.....(raising my hand, from the back row!!!)

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- Neil_Baumgardner
Here's an interior pic.



Yes it was Memorial Day 2004.

Sorry its kinda dark... But you can see Don on the left, myself in red (garnet actually) to the right with my trusty camera & tripod, and my friend Carl in white next to me (tying his shoe or something...).

Now, for a further quiz - out of this dark picture, what AFVs can you make out? Obviously Don is ineligable...

Neil


Allow me to step in here, Neil, and post a brighter pic.
I make out an M60A1, M48 an M60, and that twin 40mm like thing I took a pic of in '71 out front of the old Patton Museum, I do believe!
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David_Reasoner
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

On the right we have an M3A3 Stuart followed by an M2 Medium. Can't make out much past that.

David
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

Well, I post a quiz and then my boss get's me busy and I can't follow up.

Yes the LST building was the item I was looking for. Thanks Neil and Don for picking up the slack. It is an interesting building and I think very appropriate that it is used to store Museum vehicles.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- David_Reasoner
On the right we have an M3A3 Stuart followed by an M2 Medium. Can't make out much past that.

David


The M2 is technically a "T5 Phase I" pilot but close enough.... What about whats behind it? You can just make out the gun & gun shield. Not a turret, that may give it away...

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

>sniff, sniff< Do I smell something burning?

Laughing Shocked Laughing Shocked

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

Let's see at the back of the lefthand row is the MBT70 'PiGG'
Smile

Okay I cheated I looked at the few pictures I took in the LST building last spring that are bright enough to see Smile

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- bsmart
Let's see at the back of the lefthand row is the MBT70 'PiGG'
Smile

Okay I cheated I looked at the few pictures I took in the LST building last spring that are bright enough to see Smile


Actually, thats not the "Pigg" - lets not get our MBT-70s confused now Wink

The MBT-70 inside the LST Building is pilot No. 6. The Pigg (otherwise Pilot No. 4) is elsewhere on post.

Again, to get it on the new site & for those who havent read it before, here's the info I have (best that I can find) on the MBT-70s:

Pilot No. 1, registration number 09A 001 67. According to Hunnicutt, it was an automotive pilot only and did not have any fire control equipment. Located at TACOM perhaps? Or later converted to the XM803 prototype located at Knox?*

Pilot No. 2, should be registration number 09A 002 67. Was located at APG according to Hunnicutt, featured turret weights very similar to Knox's No.6. Conducted live fire trials with the Shillelagh, as well as suspension demonstrations. Is it "behind the fence?" Or later converted to XM803 prototype and sent to Knox?*

Pilot No. 3, registration number 09A 003 67. Originally located at Knox, later traded with the Ordnance Museum for their King Tiger. Initially displayed in front of the Ordnance Museum, it is now on the new Mile of Tanks, but has been mistakenly labeled as Pilot No. 5, reg number 09A 005 67 (probably simply by copying from the picture of same in Hunnicutt).

Pilot No. 4, registration number 09A 004 67. MBT-70 “Pigg� at Knox. Originally an MBT-70, shown in Hunnicutt being loaded on a trailer. Modified by Col Jimmie Pigg with M60 and M88 parts to serve as an XM803 surrogate. The plaque describes the chassis as an "automotive test rig, torsion bar version, of the 803."

Pilot No. 5, registration number 09A 005 67. I'm guessing this one was really put through the ringer. According to Crismon, it was tested at White Sands Missile Range. Later at APG. Seen in 1980 photo in Museum Ordnance at the Ordnance Museum collection in very poor condition, lacking right-side track. Reported by same to be "behind the fence" as of 1991. Appears to be the pilot now located at the Military Museum of Southern New England.

Pilot No. 6, registration number 09A 006 68. Located in the LST Building at Knox. Not a whole lot of info otherwise, cant find any other pictures.

Pilot No. 7, registration number 09A 007 67. XM803 prototype at Knox, appears to be based on an MBT-70 hull.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

No other guesses?

I'll give one away. The T95 is in front of the MBT-70.

There's one other vehicle - the shield & gun is just barely visible behind the T5/M2 Medium. Any takers?

Neil
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David_Reasoner
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- Neil_Baumgardner
No other guesses?

There's one other vehicle - the shield & gun is just barely visible behind the T5/M2 Medium. Any takers?

Neil


Sorry, just can't make out enough to even make an educated guess.

David
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

Okay, its an M3 Gun Motor Carriage... Behind it (not visable) is an M4A1(75) Sherman; M4A3E2 Jumbo Sherman, another Sherman, an APC I think and the XM800W ARSV.

Doug gets the "no-prize" for picking out the most...

Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:54 am
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- Neil_Baumgardner

Doug gets the "no-prize" for picking out the most...

Neil


The story of my life.... Rolling Eyes
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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- Neil_Baumgardner
Okay, its an M3 Gun Motor Carriage... Behind it (not visable) is an M4A1(75) Sherman; M4A3E2 Jumbo Sherman, another Sherman, an APC I think and the XM800W ...


One of those is the Sherman Flame tank...on the right side. As memory serves me its just behind the 'Jumbo'

The APC (in front of the XM800w, on the right side all the way back) is the M59.

I like that M3 GMC....the first Tank Destroyer....an Ontos's Great, Great, Great, Great, Grand Father.

Anyone care to list the 'generations' from M3 GMC to the Ontos?.....(not as easy as you might think)

" He pulls the leather glove from his right hand, a finger at a time, then THRUSTS it to the dusty ground at the feet of his challangers...."

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jcneel
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Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

Ok - I'm confused - I took this photo of what I thought was an MBT at Fort Knox a couple of years ago - is this one now in the LST building? Or is this one the "Pigg"?

And%20here's%20a%20photo%20of%20the%20one%20out%20at%20Aberdeen%20from%20last%20year%20trip%20I%20made%20out%20there:

later

cn
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Neil_Baumgardner
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Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Training Tank Only

- jcneel
Ok - I'm confused - I took this photo of what I thought was an MBT at Fort Knox a couple of years ago - is this one now in the LST building? Or is this one the "Pigg"?


You are correct. This is MBT-70 Pilot No. 4, registration number 09A 004 67, aka the “Pigg�


Here's%20the%20plaque:
%20%20
And%20here's%20a%20photo%20of%20the%20one%20out%20at%20Aberdeen%20from%20last%20year%20trip%20I%20made%20out%20there:
This%20is%20MBT-70%20Pilot%20No.%203,%20registration%20number%2009A%20003%2067%20mislabelled%20as%20reg%20number%2009A%20005%2067%20(the%20restoration%20folks%20probably%20simply%20copied%20a%20picture%20from%20Hunnicutt).%20
%20%20
Pilot%20No.%206,%20registration%20number%2009A%20006%2068,%20is%20the%20one%20located%20in%20the%20LST%20Building. Pilot%20No.%205,%20registration%20number%2009A%20005%2067%20(the%20original%20one)%20is%20now%20at%20the%20Military%20Museum%20of%20Southern%20New%20England. Status%20of%20Pilots%201%20&%202%20is%20unknown.%20 There's%20also%20the%20erstwhile%20Pilot%20No.%207,%20registration%20number%2009A%20007%2067,%20which%20is%20the%20XM803%20prototype%20at%20Knox,%20appears%20to%20be%20based%20on%20an%20MBT-70%20hull.

Neil
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