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M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:13 pm
Post subject: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

...and basis for ID on visual evidence only. Thanks!
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piney
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:21 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

are they M48's ?

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

- piney
are they M48's ?


Yes, but which model? (This is not a trick question).
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binder001
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

Either M48A2s or M48A3s. My opinion runs to M48A2 (or A2C). The tanks are M48 types, they have the commander's cupola (rules out M48), they have the IR engine deck (rules out M48A1) and they have 90mm guns (rules out M48A5). They appear to have the "squared off" headlight guards and appear to have three return rollers, both making them likely M48A2s. There were M48A3s with "squared off" headlight guards, but since the A3 was a rebuilt A1 I'm pretty sure that all of them had five return rollers (as on the parent vehicle). I couldn't see the engine deck well enough to verify the presence of the side-mounted air cleaners which would be indicative of the diesel engine of an M48A3. So M48A2s. There's my best guess!
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

- binder001
Either M48A2s or M48A3s. My opinion runs to M48A2 (or A2C). The tanks are M48 types, they have the commander's cupola (rules out M48), they have the IR engine deck (rules out M48A1) and they have 90mm guns (rules out M48A5). They appear to have the "squared off" headlight guards and appear to have three return rollers, both making them likely M48A2s. There were M48A3s with "squared off" headlight guards, but since the A3 was a rebuilt A1 I'm pretty sure that all of them had five return rollers (as on the parent vehicle). I couldn't see the engine deck well enough to verify the presence of the side-mounted air cleaners which would be indicative of the diesel engine of an M48A3. So M48A2s. There's my best guess!


Thanks. From discussions on another forum (that you're a party to), I had to call into question my own memory (hey, it was 41 years ago). Those M48 pics are my own AIT experience, but I didn't recall them being gassers so convinced myself they must be A3's (also, we used a gasser on at least one project at the Armor Board later, so thought I was confusing the experience). At the time, M60's and M60A1's were in demand in line units in Germany, Korea and CONUS (though there were a few at Knox then). M48's were still being used in AIT (at least mine) because (presumably) of limited supply and the transition from an M48 to an M60 is not a difficult one.

I am absolutely certain that our vehicles had M37 MG's (I didn't see an M73 until I went to the NCO academy and Sheridan school...and remember my surprise and delight at getting "hands on" with a weapon I'd only seen in WWII and Korea histories and comics), so, unless there was a hybrid M48 that was equipped with diesel and the M37, maybe just for training purposes, they must have been A2's.

If there's another explanation, I can't think what it might be.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

Doug,

Definitely a type of M48A2 Gasser, best indicator is the heater exhaust pipe, Gas engined tanks had them on the left, Diesel on the right. Another good indicator is the gunners sight housing. A3's used the same as the M60, the housings in your pictures are from earlier M48's without night sights. Now determining if they are A2's or A2C's is difficult, but based on the time frame you were there and it being AIT, I would say A2C's, since the rangefinder for an A2 was still the M13 Stereoscopic and not at all similar to the M17 of an A2C that was also used in the M48A3 and M60 series. I'm sure if you used a stereoscopic range finder in AIT you would remember, completely different beast.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 model variant ID, please....(JOE!)..everybody...

- Joe_D
Doug,

Definitely a type of M48A2 Gasser, best indicator is the heater exhaust pipe, Gas engined tanks had them on the left, Diesel on the right. Another good indicator is the gunners sight housing. A3's used the same as the M60, the housings in your pictures are from earlier M48's without night sights. Now determining if they are A2's or A2C's is difficult, but based on the time frame you were there and it being AIT, I would say A2C's, since the rangefinder for an A2 was still the M13 Stereoscopic and not at all similar to the M17 of an A2C that was also used in the M48A3 and M60 series. I'm sure if you used a stereoscopic range finder in AIT you would remember, completely different beast.


I think we're safe with A2C then. Agree that if it had been a stereoscopic RF, that would have stuck with me and I'd have had to relearn a new system on the M60A1, which was the next time I was on an MBT (a test mule for a Board project).

M48A2C....Jeez that makes me feel older than I am. Sad
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