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Sources for track colour information?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Jim_Coles
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:56 am
Post subject: Sources for track colour information?

I'm looking for information to use in getting the correct colour on model AFV tracks - something other than the generic rust/brown. I know that track links were cast from a variety of metal alloys, and that the colour of the metal varied depending on the alloy used.

Does anyone know of any sources which would identify A) the composition of track links for specific WW2 and modern AFVs and/or B) the colour of the various alloys (preferably under normal field conditions, not after sitting on a slab for 20 years)?
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:53 am
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

Hi Jim,

maybe this will be helpfull for modern AFV track's
On the ArmyTechnology site are some track manufactures listed

www.army-technology.co...llery.html

Very good is Diehl Remscheid from Germany (site is English) they have an list of metal alloy's used for tracks, including some picture's of new tracks
www.diehl-remscheid.com/

Also an good reference is checking on tracked construction machinery
Metals used for the track will be similair to one's used on AFV, also the wear will be similair

The material used for tracks today is almost the same as during WW2

Concerning the colour of alloy's, there is little colour difference, especially when tracks are new
Polished steel or cast iron looks the same as stainless steel alloy's
There only will be an difference between 2 very different materials like metals based on steel or aluminium

There will be an difference after an curtain amount of time, because of corrosion
Aluminium alloy's most of the time will get white spots
Steel alloy's will become rust/brown

Michel

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

- Jim_Coles
Does anyone know of any sources which would identify A) the composition of track links for specific WW2 and modern AFVs and/or B) the colour of the various alloys (preferably under normal field conditions, not after sitting on a slab for 20 years)?


IIRC new british tracks have always arrived covered in a gloss black paint so you cannot actually see the alloy colour. Looking through some images here its looks like this practice may date back to before WW2.

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

I agrre with Jim. When they are new they are black. Possibly coated with cozmoline (sp?).

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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

Don't know if it is visible on this picture, but after driving through sand the tracks are have a greyish (sp?) metal colour. When new they have almost the same colour. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Lesley

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

Hi folks,

found some additional reference photo material

www.dreamstime.com/sea...s&s_sm=any

picture from everything : new, used, rusty, worn out, painted, Russian, American, etc Mr. Green

maybe some-one can use it

Michel

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Jim_Coles
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

Thanks for the info.

I have come across several comments that WW2 German tracks were cast from manganese steel, which gave them a "brown" colour. Can anyone provide any further info on this? Was the brown due to oxidation, replacing the red/orange of normal iron/steel rust, or was it an actual change to the basic metal colour?
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

Hi Jim,

I have been searching the internet and cast manganese steel appears a little brownish in colour
Most likely this is just an little corrosion, because Magnase steel is an alloy of steel and magnese



An good example of magnese steel that is easy to find is railway track
The rail is made out of magnese steel, it is not an cast material but very similair

The part that is worn of because of the contact of the train wheel is shiny and in appearance similair to (polished) steel
The side are rust brown / orange

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...stoss.jpeg

Michel

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

Hi,

Modern (which is to say, since the early 60's at least) US tracks are painted with a very durable black preservative paint when they leave the factory. I've seen them at every stage from brand new to nearly falling off the vehicle, and I've rarely seen bright steel color on any of them.

(Modern high-strength and armor steels generally don't get shiny silver-colored unless they are somehow polished. Bare metal is usually some shade of metallic grey, ranging from quite dark to rarely quite light.)

M48 & M60-series tracks were cast rubber blocks encasing the metal components. The only visible metal parts were the end-connectors and the center-guides. These usually started black and weathered to a dull metallic gray. The sides of the center-guides could get a little bit polished as they rubbed against the inner surfaces of the roadwheels, but usually appeared to be just a brighter shade of metallic grey. In certain light it could sometimes look more silvery, but even that faded quickly as the bare metal quickly oxidizes to dull the sheen.

Late in the M60-series and continuing into the M1-series, the track was changed to a cast (forged?) steel track block with replaceable rubber wear pads on the outside surface. They retained a rubber insert on the inside surface for the roadwheels to run on, which probably also helps to keep it quieter. That steel track block comes painted black also, and usually wears down to a dull metallic medium gray color. The end-connectors and center-guides wear the same as for earlier track. The track for M113s and M2/M3 Bradley-series vehicles is similar.

One special situation is when the track is run in soft sand, which tends to clean and somewhat polish the steel. The steel never seems to really get bright, but will get much lighter colored.

All this bare metal rusts very quickly when no longer subject to being rubbed against other parts. It doesn't usually get that weird orange rust except for in a few spots. The color of the rust is generally somewhere between a reddish-brown and brownish-red. The longer it sits, the darker it gets.

My observations, your definition of "silver" may vary!

C

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jtrowbridge5
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Sources for track colour information?

tracks on German tanks
Dennis

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