±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 304
Total: 305
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: wheelsup_cavu > Community Forums
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Downloads
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Photo Gallery
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: CPGlang
22: Member Screenshots
23: Home
24: Home
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: CPGlang
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Photo Gallery
40: Home
41: Member Screenshots
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Downloads
52: Community Forums
53: Member Screenshots
54: Photo Gallery
55: Downloads
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: CPGlang
68: Member Screenshots
69: Member Screenshots
70: Photo Gallery
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Your Account
74: Photo Gallery
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: CPGlang
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Home
88: Photo Gallery
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Member Screenshots
94: Home
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: Photo Gallery
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Member Screenshots
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Home
132: Home
133: Downloads
134: Member Screenshots
135: Downloads
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: CPGlang
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Downloads
154: Home
155: Downloads
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: CPGlang
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Downloads
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: CPGlang
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Member Screenshots
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Photo Gallery
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Your Account
190: News
191: Photo Gallery
192: Home
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: CPGlang
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: Community Forums
199: Statistics
200: Community Forums
201: Downloads
202: Community Forums
203: Downloads
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Downloads
224: Downloads
225: Downloads
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Downloads
232: Home
233: Downloads
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Supporters
239: Downloads
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Downloads
246: Search
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Member Screenshots
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Photo Gallery
262: Photo Gallery
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Statistics
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Photo Gallery
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Downloads
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: CPGlang
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Member Screenshots
285: News Archive
286: Home
287: Search
288: CPGlang
289: CPGlang
290: Photo Gallery
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Blackjack
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:12 am
Post subject: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In one of the Osprey Elite books on the Warsaw Pact, it states that the East German NVA had a unit outfitted with M113s and an M47 or two to look like West German vehciles (smoke dischargers, etc) that were obtained from Vietnam. This unit was to wreck havoc if East and West were to ever come to blows, which thankfully they never did. They would have made things confusing for a while, anyhow...

I heard a rumor many moons ago that there was a Chieftan in Poland that was used for evaluation and training, obtained from Iran, but I haven't heard anything since. An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.

The US holdings are pretty well known, coming from Egypt and Israel before the Wall came down. Supposedly, a few Scuds were aquired after the Wall came down and their crews in cooperation with the US Military demonstrated what operating procedures were as a number were fred off in Nevada and potential countermeasures developed.

The USSR got an M-60 with blazer armour from Syria which was reverse engineered and lessons passed on to their own armor. What others are there that may be known of? I think its odd after all this time that the Chieftan is still a tightly held secret, if it was ever in Polish hands at all. There have to be other unique vehicles out there in strange lands with unique stories behind them....
Back to top
View user's profile
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Blackjack
An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.


It was still there in the summer of '07 at the Polish Army Museum.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

If you remove the option of captured and reused by the second owner, there are a lot fewer possibilities. Sales are an obvious source of unusual uses.

There are stories of an Italian Leopard I winding up in the USSR for observations.

How about some of the Israeli Shermans in Chile - third or fourthhand?
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the NVA were intending those vehicles for subterfuge, I would have thought more likely as OPFOR vehicles.

As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...0&Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...4&Max=2146

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

About 5 years ago a SCUD was tested at White Sands Missile Range.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

When I was stationed at Fort Irwin I heard of a similar OPFOR unit to ours run by the Soviet Army somewhere in the Ukraine.

They were supposedly outfitted with captured equipment, although the scale and instrumentation was no where near as in depth as what we were doing. Never heard any more since then.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Taranov
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Moscow, Russia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Correction:
M48A5 with Blazer armor, trophy on 1982 conflict, if we are talk about Kubinka tank. Chieftain Mk.5 and Scorpion - gift from Saddam, ex-iranian tanks.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In the late 70's there was an operational 'Hind D' at Ft Bliss, for a brief period of time. It was kept 'under wraps' but was operational and used on occasion. I happened to see it a couple times as it flew around the desert.

I did hear it was 'on loan' from Ft Hunter-Ligget in California, but not sure of that 'rumor'.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world LOL... I was promised a ride (presumably in the cramped assault compartment) when I visited as a reporter some years ago, but we ended up on a Black Hawk instead Sad

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

This is at Fort Bliss. I talked to the US Army pilot and he said they were training foreign pilots.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- TrevorLarkum
As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Max=2146


Apologies to anyone who clicked on these and got a 'Service Unavailable' message, as I did earlier today. It's now fixed and these links are working again.

As Taranov said, the M48 with the Blazer is the M48A5, #124 (I should have been more specific as there's also an M48A3 in the collection, #123):

www.preservedtanks.com...;Select=15

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Joe_D
Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D


When I worked as a fuel man at White Sands they brought one of these out one day and I refueled it. It had the American crew but they were testing American-made machine gun mounts in it. I think that had the SAW and M240.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Neil_Baumgardner
JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world


Yeah, if you listen to the far right wing wackos on shortwave radio or any of their crazy rags, that's proof we have Russian and U.N. bases in the U.S. ready to take over for the New World Order. One of the better laughs I got, was a pic of Canadian Cougars on rail cars going to NTC. They were still painted white, having just come back from Bosnia, according to the wackos this was more proof of N.W.O. forces comming into the U.S..
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum