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Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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the_shadock
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Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:18 am
Post subject: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

Hello,
here is a summary of the known M4A2s and their manufacturers. This list is published for researches purposes. Joe DeMarco and me are trying to find clues or variations in production that could help to tell if an M4A2 was made by Federal Machine and Welder or Pullman Standard, because today we can't tell the difference from the outside without having the serial number. Any more information is the most welcome.

Strängnäs Arsenalen Museum, SWE M4A2 Fisher
Victoria Park, London, CDN M4A2 Fisher
Sherbrooke, CDN M4A2 Fisher
Chieti Italy M4A2 Fisher (M4 engine and rear hull)
ASPHM Association, FR M4A2 Fisher
Mouliets et Villemartin, FR M4A2 Fisher
Arromanches, FR M4A2 Fisher
Croix de Médavy, FR M4A2 Fisher
Ecouché, FR M4A2 Fisher
St-Christophe, FR M4A2 Fisher
Camp de Coetquidan, FR M4A2 Fisher
Romilly sur Seine, FR M4A2 Fisher
Fontenay le Comte, FR M4A2 Fisher
Fontenay le Comte, FR M4A2 Fisher
Sherman « Wagram », FR M4A2 Fisher
Fontevraud, FR M4A2 Fisher
Ahmednagar (DD tank) India M4A2 Fisher
Mandoli, Karnataka (DD tank) India M4A2 Fisher
Sherman BARV Cadmans M4A2 Fisher
Sherman BARV Bovington M4A2 Fisher
Guadalcanal M4A2 Fisher
Tarawa M4A2 Fisher

Aberdeen/Fort Lee, USA M4A2 ALCO

Borden Camp, CDN M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
RAAC Tank Museum, AUS M4A2 Pullman
REME Museum UK M4A2 Pullman
Portsmouth D Day Museum M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
Piana Dell Orme, IT M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
Blésignac, André Lurton, FR M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
Mouliets et Villemartin, FR M4A2 Pullman
Saumur char « Corse », FR M4A2 Pullman
Private collection, UK M4A2 Pullman
Bovington (DD tank), UK M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
Moscow Poklonnaya Gora, RUS M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
Lenino Snegiri , RUS M4A2 Pullman (suspected)
Piana Dell Orme, Italy M4A2 Pullman (suspected)

Saumur M4A2 hull, FR M4A2 FMW
Camp de Coetquidan, FR M4A2 FMW
Badonviller, FR M4A2 FMW
Utah Beach, FR M4A2 FMW (suspected)
Grussenheim, FR M4A2 FMW (suspected)

camp d’Oberhoffen, FR M4A2 Pullman or FMW
Saumur char “Montmirail” , FR M4A2 Pullman or FMW
MVCG Midi Pyrénées , FR M4A2 Pullman or FMW
Alençon, FR M4A2 Pullman or FMW
Belfort, FR M4A2 Pullman or FMW
Kiev Ukraine M4A2 Pullman or FMW
Sherman BARV Ahmednagar M4A2 Pullman or FMW
El Alamein war museum, Egypt M4A2 Pullman or ALCO

Camp de Fontevraud, FR (unknown manufacturer)

No known surviving M4A2 made by Baldwin, among the 12 ever produced.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates


Last edited by the_shadock on Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:09 am; edited 5 times in total
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TrevorLarkum
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Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:36 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

My lists are here - I'm not sure if you have them all, such as ones at El Alamein and Tagliamento:

Preserved Shermans

I also have one at Latrun that isn't online yet.

If, however, I've misidentified some do let me know.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
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the_shadock
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Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:44 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- TrevorLarkum
My lists are here - I'm not sure if you have them all, such as ones at El Alamein and Tagliamento:

Preserved Shermans

I also have one at Latrun that isn't online yet.

If, however, I've misidentified some do let me know.


Trevor,

thanks for your message. I completely forgot the M4A2 displayed at El Alamein. THis one should have been built by either ALCO or Pullman.

There doesn't seem to be any M4A2 at Latrun, but there are 2 or 3 M4A4s that have an M4A2 engine and exhaust (for example the M4A4 with FL-11 turret). The one on the tower is most probably an M4 built by Baldwin.

P-O

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soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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the_shadock
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Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

Joe DeMarco sent me a photo of the M4A2 from Poklonnaya Gora.Apparently, it was displayed at Snegiri before going to Moscow. At that time, the tank was not repainted and one could nearly read the painted USA number :



Does anyone have a higher resolution version of this photo, or another one of the same kind, that could help us to read the USA number? It could help us to determine the manufacturer of the tank.

P-O

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soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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TrevorLarkum
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Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

In my book Preserved Tanks in Russia (1997) I had two M4A2s at Snegiri, one of which was reported to have been recently removed (presumably the one now at Poklonnaya Gora). The remaining one has the number 3038978 painted on the side. I can put the pictures online if it's useful (but possibly not immediately as I go on holiday this week).

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- TrevorLarkum
In my book Preserved Tanks in Russia (1997) I had two M4A2s at Snegiri, one of which was reported to have been recently removed (presumably the one now at Poklonnaya Gora). The remaining one has the number 3038978 painted on the side. I can put the pictures online if it's useful (but possibly not immediately as I go on holiday this week).


yes I would be interested in getting these pics. Could you please send them via email? Should not take as long as putting them on your website..

thanks

P-O

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- the_shadock
yes I would be interested in getting these pics. Could you please send them via email? Should not take as long as putting them on your website..


Actually, putting them on the website isn't too hard as I have written a program to do most of the hard work. Most of the effort is in writing the text (already done in this case) and in sorting/naming/preparing the photos which I have to do anyway.

I have therefore put all the photos and information I have to hand online:

Location ID 2175: Snegiri Museum of Military History, Lenino



Most of the photos are by Jim Kinnear and Mick Boyden.

I have also sent you high resolution versions of the M4A2 pictures by email. I would be interested if you can confirm that the M4A2 I heard was moving is the one now at Paklonnaya, or, possibly, it was the other one that moved (i.e. the one with the registration number painted on the side).

Meanwhile I'm about to take some holiday, so will be back on the forum in a week or two.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- TrevorLarkum
I would be interested if you can confirm that the M4A2 I heard was moving is the one now at Paklonnaya, or, possibly, it was the other one that moved (i.e. the one with the registration number painted on the side)


I can confirm that the tank with unique ID 2365 is the one that was moved to Poklonnaya Gora. If you compare photos of that tank in Lenino with the one at Poklonnaya, you can see that it has the same shell mark on the turret (left side/front) and two smaller bullet or shell marks on the side of the hull (just above the painted number 510), all marks visible on the photos below.





P-O

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

Maybe you should create a register of Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans ?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

yes, I will most probably end up with a new register in few weeks..

P-O

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- TrevorLarkum
Meanwhile I'm about to take some holiday, so will be back on the forum in a week or two.


I'm back. Thanks for the info, P-O, I'll update the website soon.

- TrevorLarkum
My lists are here - I'm not sure if you have them all, such as ones at El Alamein and Tagliamento:

Preserved Shermans


Did you follow the link on the Tagliamento M4A2 page? You're probably best placed to id the Sherman type. This was the list of vehicles I came up with when I research Tagliamento (each have their own links): Tagliamento. I generally use 'M4' when I can't be more specific.


Meanwhile I had a good holiday, with sand, sand and sangria, but also took the opportunity to prepare some more stuff for the website. I'll post more details soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- TrevorLarkum
Did you follow the link on the Tagliamento M4A2 page? You're probably best placed to id the Sherman type. This was the list of vehicles I came up with when I research Tagliamento (each have their own links): Tagliamento. I generally use 'M4' when I can't be more specific.


Trevor, I can't see any Sherman to ID when I follow that link?

Hanno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- the_shadock
I can confirm that the tank with unique ID 2365 is the one that was moved to Poklonnaya Gora. If you compare photos of that tank in Lenino with the one at Poklonnaya, you can see that it has the same shell mark on the turret (left side/front) and two smaller bullet or shell marks on the side of the hull (just above the painted number 510), all marks visible on the photos below.


Updated, thanks - I've moved this M4A2 in the database from Snegiri to Poklonnaya. Of course, to do that I first had to add Poklonnaya so I've added that straight from my PTIR book. Unfortunately I only have a few photos to hand, the others will have to wait until I have time to scan them:

Location ID 2160: Poklonnaya Gora Victory Park, Moscow


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:11 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

I would need a photo of the Tagliamento M4 / M4A2, I didn't find any showing the front or rear hull.

P-O

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving M4A2(75) Shermans

- Hanno_Spoelstra
- TrevorLarkum
Did you follow the link on the Tagliamento M4A2 page? You're probably best placed to id the Sherman type. This was the list of vehicles I came up with when I research Tagliamento (each have their own links): Tagliamento. I generally use 'M4' when I can't be more specific.


Trevor, I can't see any Sherman to ID when I follow that link?

Hanno


For each tank in the database I record any Internet links I find. For example, on the Tagliamento page, if you click on the M4A2 you will get to its profile page, and the 'Links' section is about half way down:

Unique ID 1535: Tagliamento M4A2

That one has a single link, but some tanks will have more, such as one of the ones at the Dignano bridge:

Unique ID 1531: Tagliamento Sherman (unidentified)

I am very strict about using photographs, so apart from exceptional cases, I don't use photos off the internet for which I don't have explicit permission. Instead I use the links section to connect a tank to pictures of it on the internet.

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