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M48 vs M60
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

- Joe_D

Hope this helps. Thanks for the vote of confidence Dontos and Doug, I still liked my M85, lot's of places to store pogey bait in the ammo box.

Joe D


Hi Joe...
I was thinking primarily of the cupolas....neither was very wieldy...which is why flex-mounts got stuck on them in real-world conflicts. M85 was a hoot, when it was working right.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Hey Dontos,
I figured you'd be trolling around tonight. The early 48's (pre-diesel) had the stupid little wheel between the sprocket and #6 road wheel, Just like the 47's. A lot got cut off later in their life on both of them. Usually you can see what's left of the arm still on the hull. It had it's own torsion bar from what I remember. The 47's we got back from France and Italy usually had them removed and plated over. The ROK Army 47's also had them removed. I can't say for sure but I believe it became useless when they started using a newer front idler system. That's why it's called the "Compensating Idler Wheel" because it moves forward as the track compresses the #1 arm up. I don't think 47's and early 48's had this system. Someone out there might know.
Dontos, If I ever find my way back to Knox, I'd like to see the 60 with 48 turret. Of coarse I'd bring my camera. The 48 hull I seen with the 60A2 turret was at the recovery school range across from Muldraugh. (GMD range??) there at Knox and I also saw one sitting in Richardson tank park in 97 I think.

Joe D
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Russ_Buchan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Hi, Doug!

Funny; if you were one of the last AIT classes to train on M48s, I might have been among the first classes to train on M48's AND slick M60s, at fort Knox, Summer, 1962. Night and day, brother, what a difference! Especially in the driver's compartment -- like going from Corvair to Oldsmobile. Exactly ten years' difference. The M48s must have seemed like Ford Model As or something to you guys by that time ("Hey, Cletus, looky-here, there's a dadburn horn on this'n! Beep-beep!"),

With that diesel pack shaping the after hull, the M60 always looked 'tall-in-the saddle' to me, compared with the much-squattier 'bathtub-shaped' after hull of the gasoline pack-equipped M48 versions.

The gasoline M48 also had, to some, a 'trumpet' tone out of those mufflerless exhaust headers at various loads and throttle applications, and if backing down suddenly was needed, as in an emergency stop, those headers belched raw gasoline flame like a Lockheed Constellation at takeoff.

As many of you guys have mentioned, the bore evacuator, or fume extractor, was at the very end of the M48 main armament, but only if it was fitted with the 90mm gun.

Early M48s had a little tensioning idler between the trailing roadwheel and the drive sprocket, but these, along with the horn, disappeared in the early sixties, at least in FRG.

That toad-shaped face of the M48 glacis is the surest giveaway of all.

Sincerely, sniff,
Russ
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

- Russ_Buchan
The M48s must have seemed like Ford Model As or something to you guys by that time ("Hey, Cletus, looky-here, there's a dadburn horn on this'n! Beep-beep!"),
Russ


The 48 had that stupid "steering wheel" that was much harder to steer with than the t-bar on the 60, IMO. AND, there was that reversed accelerator/brake pedal arrangement....I damn near ran over my AIT company commander on the first day because of that! (Capt. David Reich, if you're out there, I'm really sorry about that...)

But the gun was sweet.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

With all this it sounds like the M48/M60 took over where the Sherman left off as the basis for infinite mods and interchanges. So do we nowhave to say 'Never say Never with M48/M60s' like we do for Shermans?

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JimLewis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

I love the M48 and M60 series - can't get enough of 'em! For Joe D - who's provided me excellent information and support in creating the detailed M60 conversion I've always wanted to do:

Joe - I'm still working through the weathering phase, and I intend to go ahead and put a cover over the Searchlight though I worked on filling up the interior, and have yet to go back and add the Filler/Drains on the Transmission Housings as I proceed. I'm just adding the small things in finishing up this model tank.

Jim






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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:09 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Jim,
I wish I could build kits that sharp. I always wanted to display all the tanks and tracks I ever served on. Would be a pretty good collection. The most difficult would probably be the M551/VISMOD T72's from Irwin before they went T80. What ever attracted you to M60's? Usually most folks go for the sexy M1 or the old stalwart Sherman when it comes to US stuff. I feel the 60 series hasn't been given their due in history. Most folks looked at the old girl as a dinosour, but for production tanks she was a trail blazer in fire control systems and accuracy with the A3 model.

Joe D
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

- Joe_D
I feel the 60 series hasn't been given their due in history. Most folks looked at the old girl as a dinosour, but for production tanks she was a trail blazer in fire control systems and accuracy with the A3 model.

Joe D


Let's just watch that "dinosaur" talk, Joe....it cuts....knowhutimsayin'? Wink

...and as Bob Smart and I discussed once...for all their failings, the M551 Sheridan and M60A2 contributed mightily to what became the M1 Abrams (laser rangefinders on both, eventually... and stab turret...on one).
Then there's the length-of-service thing....
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:32 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Hey,
I get called dinosour alot too. I hang around this forum to feel young. Most of the new kids I worked with lately were born after my second assignment. Besides, this is the only place I get to talk tank. Everything I'm doing now is Humvee. I had the joy of sitting through another culture awarness/negotiations class today. Tommorow I get an all expense paid trip to the CS chamber. You ought to see the M16 I carry. It looks like a "Johnney 7 OMA" with the PEQ-2, Sure Fire, CCO, etc. Plus I got an M9. The 203 guys have more stuff. Wish I had an M4 with .45 instead.

Joe D
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Jinx
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:13 am
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

The Johnny Seven: One Man Army! I haven't thought about that since.....well, so long ago i can't remember!

(Never had one myself. Wanted one very, very badly, though.)




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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Here is a shot of 'our' M48A5. Taken 4th of July 05. Shes a runner once again.


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JimLewis
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

- Joe_D
Jim,
I wish I could build kits that sharp. I always wanted to display all the tanks and tracks I ever served on. Would be a pretty good collection. The most difficult would probably be the M551/VISMOD T72's from Irwin before they went T80. What ever attracted you to M60's? Usually most folks go for the sexy M1 or the old stalwart Sherman when it comes to US stuff. I feel the 60 series hasn't been given their due in history. Most folks looked at the old girl as a dinosour, but for production tanks she was a trail blazer in fire control systems and accuracy with the A3 model.


I love any and everything American, I suppose. I did the M1A2 SEP Abrams conversion long before the Dragon model hype kicked in just because the most recently produced Tamiya kit fell short. I didn't even model M4 Shermans up until three years ago. From certain angles, the M60 is pretty nice and aggressive looking. I try to model with the impressions I get from looking at the real vehicles. I'll pick out a tank or truck that "speaks" to me when I see it in person.

I want to do the M56 Scorpion in 1:35th scale, but it ain't "talkin" loud enough to me yet...

Jim Smile

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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:02 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Sweet lookin' American Iron there Don!
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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

- Joe_D
Hey,
I get called dinosour alot too. I hang around this forum to feel young. Most of the new kids I worked with lately were born after my second assignment.


Preach, brutha! I teach ROTC these days and most of the kids I deal with were born AFTER I was commissioned! I feel like an old troll around them. And leading (keeping up with?) them in PT makes me feel even older. (Don't get me wrong, I love it. There are just days I wonder why as I fall into bed!)

C
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

I was about to say there are troops retiring after 20 years that hadn't even joined up when I got out after 9 years!

Then I thought - Dontos when did you join up?

Even the f-15s that were brand spankin new when I worked on them have been retired to the bone yard.

I'm feelin old

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