±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 306
Total: 306
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: CPGlang
02: News
03: Home
04: CPGlang
05: Home
06: Home
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: CPGlang
11: Photo Gallery
12: CPGlang
13: Downloads
14: CPGlang
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: News
22: Home
23: CPGlang
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Member Screenshots
28: CPGlang
29: Home
30: CPGlang
31: Home
32: Home
33: Home
34: CPGlang
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Your Account
38: Your Account
39: CPGlang
40: Home
41: News Archive
42: Community Forums
43: News Archive
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Home
47: CPGlang
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: CPGlang
53: Photo Gallery
54: Home
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Downloads
60: Home
61: CPGlang
62: Home
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: News Archive
67: Home
68: Home
69: CPGlang
70: CPGlang
71: CPGlang
72: Statistics
73: Home
74: CPGlang
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: CPGlang
78: Downloads
79: Home
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Member Screenshots
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Home
90: Home
91: Home
92: Home
93: Downloads
94: CPGlang
95: Community Forums
96: CPGlang
97: CPGlang
98: Home
99: Home
100: Downloads
101: Home
102: CPGlang
103: Home
104: Your Account
105: Community Forums
106: Downloads
107: Your Account
108: Downloads
109: CPGlang
110: CPGlang
111: CPGlang
112: CPGlang
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Home
119: CPGlang
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Photo Gallery
123: Downloads
124: CPGlang
125: Downloads
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: CPGlang
135: Downloads
136: Photo Gallery
137: CPGlang
138: Home
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Home
145: Home
146: News Archive
147: CPGlang
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Photo Gallery
151: Photo Gallery
152: CPGlang
153: Home
154: Your Account
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: CPGlang
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Your Account
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: CPGlang
170: CPGlang
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: CPGlang
174: Your Account
175: CPGlang
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: CPGlang
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: CPGlang
182: Home
183: Home
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: CPGlang
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Downloads
190: CPGlang
191: CPGlang
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: CPGlang
197: Member Screenshots
198: CPGlang
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Member Screenshots
202: Photo Gallery
203: Photo Gallery
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Member Screenshots
208: CPGlang
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Home
212: CPGlang
213: CPGlang
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: CPGlang
218: Photo Gallery
219: Home
220: Home
221: Home
222: Downloads
223: CPGlang
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: CPGlang
228: Home
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: CPGlang
238: News Archive
239: Photo Gallery
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Downloads
245: CPGlang
246: Home
247: News
248: Community Forums
249: CPGlang
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: CPGlang
253: Home
254: CPGlang
255: CPGlang
256: Home
257: Home
258: Home
259: CPGlang
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: CPGlang
264: Member Screenshots
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Downloads
271: Your Account
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Statistics
276: CPGlang
277: Member Screenshots
278: Home
279: Home
280: Downloads
281: Home
282: Downloads
283: Home
284: Photo Gallery
285: CPGlang
286: Photo Gallery
287: CPGlang
288: CPGlang
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Downloads
293: Home
294: Photo Gallery
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Downloads
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Home
306: CPGlang

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum