ID Help

vagabond · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:52 am Post subject: ID Help

Hello All,

Found these 2 pieces in Marietta, OH. What are they?
Thanks!

Cheers!
VB

JiriTintera · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: Re: ID Help

Dear Colleague,
I assume that this is a Japanese 105mm howitzer type 91. Certainty eight out of ten.

P. S.
A similar appearance has howitzer Schneider.

Photo source: War Memorials of Menasha & Neenah, Wisconsin
warmemorials.us/artill...105mm.html

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: ID Help

Great catch Jiri!
There was something familiar with this pieces, but I failed to recognize it. Now I realized there are similarities with the italian 105/28 mod. 1913, since they are both based on a Schneider design.

Massimo

CharlieC · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Oct 24, 2012 Posts: 58

The French Canon de 105 L Schneider Mle 1913 TR, Italian Cannone 105/28 and Russian 107mm M1910 are variations on the same gun design by Schneider. (http://landships.info/landships/artillery_articles.html?load=/landships/artillery_articles/Schneider_105L_M1913.html).
The Schneider 105mm had a S-curved gun shield which wrapped around in front of the wheels - none of the guns above have this. Also the Schneider had a box trail unlike the split trail of the Marietta guns.

An image of the breech markings of the guns at Marietta would solve this in seconds.

Regards,

Charlie

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: ID Help

From what I can see, they should be japanese type 91. But I am not familiar with japanese artillery.
Don't you think they are type 91 charlie?

Massimo

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: ID Help

All I can offer is that compared to the other two pieces, I'd say those Ohioans need to get their butts out there and give those guns some TLC. Wink

If they can keep one looking like that in Wisconsin, then Ohio has no excuse!

armyjunk2 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 22, 2006 Posts: 1416

Marietta, OH also has a Japanese 75mm Type 38 downtown at the Armory.

vagabond · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: ID Help

Hi All -
Thanks for all the info!!

More photos to clinch the ID

Breech detail Cannon 1

Close up - Now I can see the Japanese characters

Breech Detail Cannon 2

Cannon 2 close up

So these are a pair of Japanese 105mm Type 91 - correct?

CharlieC · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Oct 24, 2012 Posts: 58

Without an image of the breech markings one can't be certain but they look like Japanese Type 91 howitzers.

Edit: crossed post - definitely Japanese the number 1029 is flanked by Kanji characters. I'll try to get a translation of these. If it's a Type 91 there should be two lines of Kanji script just in front of the breech block on the top of the barrel.

It's probably worth a bit of research on the 105mm Schneider design - I've read that the Polish Army had 105mm Schneiders with split trails like the Type 91 called the Wz.29 - I don't know if that was a Schneider or Polish design.

Which Type 38 do they have at Marietta? - there were two types. The early one is a licence built Krupp 75mm export gun. The Type 38 Kai was extensively rebuilt with a box trail, equilibrators and rear positioned trunnions.

Regards,

Charlie

armyjunk2 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 22, 2006 Posts: 1416

the first 2 are Japanese Type 91 howitzers. and this is the Type38

CharlieC · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Oct 24, 2012 Posts: 58

Definitely a Type 38 - the simple trail and lack of equilibrators is pretty diagnostic. The gun number and build date are on an oval brass plate on top of the breech block. The script on the breech ring says something like "Type 38 field gun" at the top and "Manufactured at Osaka Arsenal" at the bottom. I can translate the markings if you can get images of them.

Regards,

Charlie

CharlieC · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Oct 24, 2012 Posts: 58

The Kanji characters on the rear of the breech are the labels for the trigger assembly position (see attached).

Regards,

Charlie

vagabond · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:15 am Post subject: Re: ID Help

How Cool!!!

Thanks everyone for the education and info!

Cheers,
VB

armyjunk2 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 22, 2006 Posts: 1416

Here is a pic of a Schneider 105mm captured from the Japanese. This is a Schneider not the Japanese copy.