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JG300-Stoopy

Long story short, gents....after 2 or 3 years of hard family-duty service. flight simming, surviving power outages and nearby lightning strikes (one of them close enough to the house to re-arrange the phosphor in two of our televisions!!) my faithful 3.2Ghz P4 HT Gateway rig with 2MB RAM, 512MB ATI 1650 Po vid card, and Windows XP won't boot no' mo'. Seems she finally met her match, an elderly family member that just likes to turn the computer off by hitting the power strip without doing a proper Windows shutdown. Details are sketchy since I didn't see it happen, but local eyewitnesses seem to remember details that this "may" have occured during the system's usual Friday night Anti-virus scan, which means the hard drive was working away when the power was yanked. Since this family member does make up for sins like this by cooking me up all the fried potatos and onions I can eat, and agreeing with me when I make controversial statements at the dinner table, I'm not pressing charges, especially since her daughter, whom I'm allegedly married to, is suggesting buying a whole new replacement PC anyway now (always good to settle out of court, especially when ya got the upper hand!). Although I don't want a whole new PC, because I's CHEAP!

The rig still tries to boot but fails during the bootup process in all modes (normal, last good, or safe mode), so since it at least gets to the Windows boot menu the hard drive is still functional, just not bootable anymore. I'm hoping that if I can connect it as a secondary drive to another system, I can recover all the data stuff - repaints and template files, family pix, documents, yada yada yada) that's on there since my last backup, which I'm not proud to say has been a while since.

So, I'm thinking, time to not only get a new hard drive obviously, but a new Mobo, CPU and RAM...PLUS a light-duty battery-backup that will replace the surge protector which has absorbed more than it's share of spikes and surges by now. Since I own a standalone copy of Windows XP Pro I'll just install from scratch on the newly-modified setup. And I'll keep my vid card for now since it should work fine in a new system (PCI Express) and has a good amount of RAM on it and not a lot of miles. The Gateway case itself accepts any standard ATX motherboard and also has an upgraded (Antec 500W) power supply I added a while back, so I'd like to keep it around.

Basic suggestions I'm requesting input on would have to do with new motherboards. I'm looking for something with a good, solid reputation, will work with an Intel (Conroe) 2.4 or 2.6 Ghz Dual or Quad core CPU (depending on the sweet spot in pricing), won't be a PITA to set up and only needs to support, at best, mild overcocking. Stability and robustness are much more important than bleeding edge performance.

And do they make 'em with 2 SATA interfaces so I can hook up this existing drive as a secondary unit, or am I better off looking for a USB housing for it and connect it that way?

Any recommendations for a very bummed-out piggy? If you were going to get a new mobo, CPU and RAM, which would ya get, that has a good rep and reliability?

Thanks in advance!

Uhu_Fledermaus

I presume you also tryed to boot up from Windows CD Stoop ?
If not then when you do that get it to boot up from disc when it does then let it run scan disc reboot and see if it want to do so, it safed my butt on a occasion or two.

As for new hardware Twisted Evil

mobo : ASUS STRIKER EXTREME or [url=

CPU : Intel Core2 Extreme QX6850

RAM : the fastest you can get go for Quality not price minimum 2 Gig

Vidcard : thats the dog at the moment DX10 compatability issues all over the place

PSU : at least 1000 Watts, if possible get yerself a ups and make a "fool proof" switchbox behind closed doors

Soundcard : SB X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion Series

HD 's : all options possible I would go for two RAID 0 arrays and a backup so a RAID 5 setup,

Case : Thermaltake Armor --- VA8003BWS

and you're a clever ladd, so me thinks you allready have yer wishlist drawn up Wink

fled

JG300-Stoopy

Thanks Fled, and you're right.....I started the list Wink

Of course, the way things are, I'm coming up with a few questions but am trying to wiggle my way through.....so far what I see is:

I'm more in the E6750 price range (2.66 Ghz Dual-core) and pricing at newegg.com has it listed at $211, which seems a steal compared to the E6850 which is 3.0Ghz at $329..... and with what I'm reading the faster FSB speed on both allow for some mild overclocking so it's not unreasonable to get that E6750 into the 3.2 Ghz range with a matched motherboard and DDR2 800 RAM. Sound fair?

Speaking of which, it looks like a motherboard supporting the 1333 MHz FSB available on that CPU is the way to go....that motherboard you pointed out is WAY nice and again somewhat higher than wanted to go.....$299. You got me thinkin' tho.....this is the hardest part, and I was looking to stay around half of that....being cheap and all.... Wink

I've read a little bit abot new motherboards and the USB ports not liking Windows XP and vice-versa......is this a matter of the chipset being used? It seems the P35 chipset is the way to go ad the most common for htese 1333Mhz FSB motherboards, but I wonder if that means I'm going to get a chipset that has Windows XP compatability issues, such as with USB ports?

I thought about trying to boot with the Windows XP CD but the hitch is, the Windows XP Pro Full version I have is for another, now-retired system (long story) and the Windows XP on this system is Windows XP Home edition that it came with.....knowing how things work I fully expect it to gripe about something else entirely unrelated.... but I'll give it a whirl, guess I gotta go round up that dang XP media. The goofy system restore CD this came with is not what I want to use right now in case it decides to auto-wipe stuff, y'know?

Shades

Main diff' between XP Home and Pro (I used Pro for three years under the mistaken apprehension that Pro = better) is that Pro is good for networking.
That's (basically) it.
Gamers tend to prefer using Home.
Make sure you get all the patches a.s.a.p. and preferably before you visit anywhere else.

Boards:
Look at Asus P5B's and P5K's.
I would lean towards the P5B for cost.
Don't know much about the K although it seems to be picking up in popularity.
There are several different models so make sure you're buying the same one you think is the best for your needs.
I haven't heard about problems with XP and mobo's but heard loads about Vista and... well..., just about everything actually.
If you're clocking it, make sure it can get good strong voltage.

CPU:
The E6600 I have is a great chip. The E6750 you're thinking of is even faster. Don't know that a quad would be of any advantage to you for the flight sim's that are available today. Depends what else you use your rig for. Not a great deal written to take advantage of quads yet.
If you're only getting dual, a motherboard that is "Quad Ready" is probably going to be a waste of your money, unless you want to upgrade in future.
Just get something that's Dual Ready.
TIP: Seeing equipment advertised as "Dual Core Ready" DOES NOT mean they are actually Dual Ready ( as I recently found out *sigh* ). It means that they either are, or can be made to be Dual Ready (ie. by downloading a new/patched BIOS). Make sure yours is already patched with up to date BIOS to avoid this extra hassle.

PSU:
Think a 1000w PSU might be a little overkill.
I have a 600w. Your GPU might warrant more than that but I can't see a need for 1000w in the system you're describing so far.
If you get a very powerful PSU, it will need a faster fan which will make it noisier to run.
There's a free (basic) Power Supply Calculator HERE.

Sound:
I run an XFi music card and have been extremely impressed. It's a different league to the Audigy 2 card in my old system (which wasn't bad itself, even by today's standards). The gamer version should take your mind off truffles for a while.

RAM:
Saving money here is a false economy.
Get the fastest you can. Check the timings as well as the CAS Latency rating. (ie. 4-4-4-12 is faster than 5-5-5-15)

Hard drives:
If you're thinking of any new ones, look at Samsung Spinpoint.
I haven't used them myself but I'm hearing more and more about how quick, quiet, and reliable they are.
Next time I build I shall get some for myself.

GPU's:
Personal choice really. I'd go with nVidia at the moment for the same reason that I'd suggest Intel over amd. Purely top-of-the-tree at this particular moment in time. Whichever way you go, make sure the mobo favours the same make.
Tom's have great tables to give you an idea of each cards' performance over others.

If I think of anything else, I'll get back to ya.
Cool

[edit: Getting back to ya.(heheh)
Lot's of advice to folks on building systems for their own needs HERE. Most are gaming machines.]

JG300-Stoopy

Hey thanks, Shades, good stuff there and I'll do some reading at the build-your-own site.

I used to assemble/build LOTS of systems in my old line of work but that was years and years ago, back in the 80486/Pentium 1/Pentium II days and things have changed. Not afraid to do it again although I admit I enjoy the luxury these days of having someone else do the work!

So with that in mind I'm keeping my existing case, PSU, DVD drives, etc since this is more of a 'system upgrade' than a new system build. And I keep touting the Gateway thing about being able to use standard components so I guess it's time to put my money where my mouth was.

The Power Supply calcultor was cool and from everythign I see (and I answered every question) my PSU is going to be more than adequate, which is good to know. Oughta be good, considering what I paid for it!

I've seen the Tom's hardware tables about vid cards and those 8800's sure are tempting but I'll hold off for now.

It seems the Asus boards do have a good rep, the only problem with the reviews at newegg are that you can find someone that's unhappy for one reason or another with just about every product out there, so it makes the decision difficult.....once you finally find a good board with all the right specs, you also find some comment that makes you think twice! So I'll be doing a lot of reading at the links you gave and that's some GOOD INFO!!!

Danke!

JG300-Ascout

I don't have a specific hardware recommendation here, but I DO have a sound JG300 "business" suggestion: remind this un-named elderly, but presumed guilty party that you do contract work for the Postal Service and that it would be a pity to see any of those Social Security check deliveries delayed and that it's in everyone's best interest to see this problem resolved tout de suite to your satisfaction to insure there are no untimely delays, come rain, snow, sleet, Guido or Alphonse. Verstehen Sie? Wink

JG300-fr8ycat

- JG300-Stoopy

It seems the Asus boards do have a good rep, the only problem with the reviews at newegg are that you can find someone that's unhappy for one reason or another with just about every product out there, so it makes the decision difficult.....once you finally find a good board with all the right specs, you also find some comment that makes you think twice! So I'll be doing a lot of reading at the links you gave and that's some GOOD INFO!!!

LOL, I went through the same thing with those reviews. There were a few unhappy customers with the board I wanted. Just make sure you DL the latest drivers and bios upgrades before you begin your build and you'll be fine. I never had any problems with my mobo or any other piece of hardware (as some had in the reviews) but again I installed the latest bios upgrade first thing after build.

Shades · Last edited by Shades on Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total

Yep, mobo's and RAM especially (and unfortunately) suffer from quality control these days and virtually every product has a critic for something. I had a Gigabyte board in my last system, which is why I went Asus this time. lol.

Asus produce the most popular boards at the moment. There are things I miss from setting upo the Gigabyte board but there are also things I got with the Asus that made it easier than the Gigabyte. It's 'swings and roundabouts' with these things.

I believe that, having someone else assemble your p.c. for you, is not really a luxury these days, but almost a con. There is one very good reason for building yourself; You know exactly what's going in your system. When you buy a pre-buld, The Gateway's and Dell's of the world make their money from cheap generic components. Not on the Graphic card or the Audio card that all the n00bs know about and think is all that goes into a p.c. but the mobo, RAM, Hard drives or PSU.
ie. They'll tell you it's got "A MASSIVE 2GB OF RAM" but not its manufacturer, latency, or timings.

Every p.c. is only as strong as its weakest component; I'd rather decide what my weakest component will be myself.

And I sympathise on being out of date. I had to read up again before building my latest, and I've been advising others on what to do for years. lolol.

Re your SATA2 query, my own P5N-e SLi board has 4 SATA slots so it is possible. By the way, I'm not recommending my own board as I've found some things on it which, had I known about them first, would have pushed me away from it. If I was doing it again today, I'd go with the P5B as a 1st option or the P5K a 2nd. I may even swap it out later on anyway.

Re SLi;
If you're not going for it, try and avoid getting an SLi capable board. The second card option takes out 2 PCI-e slots on the mobo you could have used for other things.

You can post your "Proposed" choice of components on the BYO site and members will pass their critical eye over it and point out any glaring errors for you. Give it to 'em a day or so before you want to buy to give them time to assess it for you and post links to the components you're thinking of. They're pretty good at it. Just be aware that pure gamers/clocker's, tend to recommend faster components regardless of whether they fit into your budget.

Cool

Kitform

I've used Asus Mobo's for lots of builds over the years along with other makes and IMHO Asus are the better board.

specs in sig line.

401RCAF_Sly · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 12, 2005 Posts: 223

Stoop

I've not read all the way through this thread, but one thing I have seen when scanning thro Hardware /Oclock sites is that Core2 comes in 2 different FSB speeds.... the multiplier is locked on e6600 series and they are a great Oclocking chip ( seems everyone can push them to 3.0 Ghz on the stock Intel air cooler)
With the new series being locked and FSB already at 1300 Mhz you have no headroom for OClocking
So I would look for an old 800mhz FSB spec E6600 with a board that runs 1300 FSB that will give you a free upgrade to 3ghz if your ram is good enough

I know you prolly not into OClocking but this really is something for nothing as it seems all the core 2 chips are on par with each other... Intel just locked them out lower so as to attack all price points..

Plenty of stuff out there on the boards about it

BTW a mobo with 680i chipset giving 2 PCie x16 channels would be a smart move too

Not hard facts just a heads up... check it out

Sly

Try installing XP with keep file structure option on your HD.. sounds like it screwed the boot sector thats all... repair windows option is a bit suspect IMO

HF_SlowHand

wow, some real braniacs out there... shades, why doesnt your pix show your glasses with the electrical tape on them LOL

Stoop, ditch pci-e and dual cards... spend your moola on an OC 8800GT card... you wont be disappointed... (opinions are like... well you know)

JG300-Stoopy

Heya Gents!!!!!

THANK YOU - each and every one of you - for your input, I found each comment to be very much worth considering and it really did help me keep my sanity as I've been pouring through reviews, feedback, specs, etc etc etc for the last 24 hours!!! Was nice fast learning curve and it feels good to be somewhat caught up on the finer details now.

I owe ya's!!! (Even you, Ascout, although I sure don't want the kind, doting elderly-person-slash-fry-cook in question trying to expedite things by puttin' the new parts together for me!).

I THINK I'm at a point where I've identified the parts that will do the job, be reliable and robust, and work well together. Shades, I'll make a post at your build-your-own website just to run this through the mill, and I kinda expect it's fairly plain-vanilla so I won't expect too much feedback other than any warnings if I've picked some rotten stuff....

Now, not to be contrary to the Asus recommendations, I did see some excellent feedback on a new Gigabyte board which is based on the P35 chipset, so it runs a 1333Mhz FSB and supports both DDR2 and DDR3 RAM as well as the upcoming Penryn (45nm) chip. Keeping in mind that a primary goal was something that would be stable and reliable and last a good long time, I really liked what I read about the very robust, durable PCB design, solid capacitors, and voltage regulator circuitry that's designed for lower power draw (and temps) and long life. It's not a board that beats the Asus in terms of overclocking performance nd such, but one review did reveal it has considerable less power draw and I'm not sure (rather doubt) I'll be overclocking much - at least for the first half of it's lifespan - so this board is givin' me the warm and fuzzies. And I do like an Award BIOS, although it's been a long time since I had to do anything fancy inside one.

Anyhoo, here's what I've picked out and why, if you feel up to commenting.....

----------- M O T H E R B O A R D : ----------------

GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
$159.99
www.newegg.com/Product...6813128048

- Reasons stated above....flexibility, feedback and reviews, and while it doesn't quite get up to the same performancespecs of the Asus competition, it ain't no slouch either, and the "Ultra Durable 2, ultra cooling" aspect seems to be confirmed by the specs and reviews, like these:

techgage.com/article/g...35c-ds3r/8 <-- This guy seemed picky, but was still OK with it

http://www.xbitlabs.com<--read what reviewer says on page about "PCB Design"

www.tomshardware.com/2..._compared/

------------- P R O C E S S O R : ------------------

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail
$211.99

Not much to say here, seems the best price/performance CPU deal going right now.

Sly - thanks for the heads-up. As far as OC'ing goes, although I probably will stay away from it at first, this chip and board combo should be OK, one reviewer using the exact motherboard above and the E6750 says: "Easily overclocked my E6750 from 2.66GHz to 3.8GHz in less than 20 minutes. I can not unlock down to see what the FSB limit on the board is, but apparently it is higher than 475. ". Dangme!!!

www.newegg.com/Product...6819115029

---------------- M E M O R Y : ---------------------

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop
$109.99

This was a TOUGH call because there's just so many manufacturers and options. I realy liked what I read about Geil RAM in terms of performance and reviews and had it selected, but that changed when I went to Gigabyte's website and cross-referenced it to the list of supported RAM - I couldn't find the GEIL model number at newegg, so chose this RAM which is DDR2 800 with 4-4-4-12 timing latency stuff.....I'll wait for DDR2-1066 or DDR3 to come down in price and then take advantage of the board's ability to use it down the road....people seem to think there's not a lot of performance diff between good low-latency DDR 800 and the regular (affordable) DDR-1066 or DDR3 stuff right now....

www.newegg.com/Product...6820146565

------------- H A R D D R I V E : ------------------

SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
$119.99

Nice call, Shades.......people seem to be jumping all over this drive! Although I've been faithful to Western Digital whenever possible, they've done me good too....

www.newegg.com/Product...6822152052

---- EXTRAS: ----

Adding a few extras for the mod......like a cheapo-but-decent sound card just to move the audio off the motherboard (seems to always help with FPS in flight sims for some reason) plus a new copy of Windows XP Home since the version I have is the original Pro, with no service pack update, which I'll keep with the old PC anyway since I'm going to resurrect it and will need this extra copy to stay legal anyhoo.... then a USB floppy drive just because it's good to have at certain times (like for device drivers during the build, plus the kid can use it since his teachers still ask for some homework to be brought in on floppy, and our systems don't have 'em!).

Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM
$27.99

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM
$89.99

NEC Black 1.44MB 3.5" External USB Floppy Drive - OEM
$21.99

-------------------------------------

Out the door I'm at $750 with shipping. A tidy little system upgrade. As for the vid card, oh yeah, I know those NVidia 8800's are hot stuff but I'm keeping my ATI 1650 PRO with 512MB now as a "placeholder" until the cards come down just a tad more, and I'll upgrade sometime down the road. Just focusing on the other guts for now...and I don''t see myself going to SLI or Crossfire in a long long time (since nothing in the flight sim roadmap pointsto using it) so that figured into the Mobo choice too.

Should pep up the ol' 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 HT "Prescott" (or, should I say, "press-hot") system...and I believe I'll be able to retain my zoomy-cool big-ol' copper CPU cooler with the monster fan since it's the same socket type.

See anything blatantly wrong there or anything that can be improved without a significant (> 10%) price spread?

JG300-Stoopy

Addendum:

Shades......well, dangit, I've registered over at the site you mentioned (buildyourownpc.org) but not getting the authentication email to activate my account. So, goldarnit, I can't submiot this for review.....going on travel & I'll try again tomorrow from the road if I can.

Wifey says "Order It!" so I'm startin' to get anxious....

HF_SlowHand

sounds rockin! just remember with PCI-E if you had (2) ATI 1650s it is still 512mb of memory (not 1024)... hence the bottleneck is video memory (and one good card in this case can beat two )...

anywaz, you have a nice card and will have an outstanding rig... git er done fella!

Shades

Don't know why you can't register.
Gav (the guy who runs it) must have it set to manual.

While I think of it;

I run my E6600 on the stock intel fan.
It idles at 30C and works at 40C.
But, if you're thinking of clocking it at any time, you may want to order the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro fan to cope with the extra heat it will produce (some BYO'ers already use this as their first choice fan for stock timings anyway).

Choices look good.

The only thing I would question is the sound card:-

I've had Creative Audigy2 THX which was a huge card (in it's day).
I'm now using the Creative XFi extreme music.
The difference in performance is marked, although I think I do have quite a good ear.
I can set it individually for games, music or movies.
I wanted it as an interim card while choosing a studio spec. card for making music and I've been really, really, surprised by how good it is.
I would whole-heartedly recommend throwing the few extra bucks it would take to get one.

It comes in several versions of which Gamer and Music are two. I've only heard one bad report this year, which was about the gamer version. Don't think it's serious enough to worry about and it was from a [[[DEMM KID!!!]]].

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