±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 756
Total: 756
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Member Screenshots
11: Member Screenshots
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Downloads
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Home
35: Home
36: Downloads
37: News
38: Community Forums
39: News Archive
40: Home
41: Downloads
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Downloads
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: News Archive
51: Community Forums
52: Member Screenshots
53: Home
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: News Archive
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Downloads
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: News Archive
65: Community Forums
66: Member Screenshots
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Member Screenshots
74: Member Screenshots
75: News Archive
76: Home
77: Photo Gallery
78: Member Screenshots
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Member Screenshots
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Home
100: Photo Gallery
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Member Screenshots
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Member Screenshots
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: News Archive
124: Community Forums
125: Member Screenshots
126: Member Screenshots
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Member Screenshots
131: Home
132: Downloads
133: Member Screenshots
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Member Screenshots
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Downloads
143: Community Forums
144: News Archive
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Home
152: Member Screenshots
153: Member Screenshots
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Photo Gallery
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Member Screenshots
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Statistics
170: Member Screenshots
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Home
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Member Screenshots
184: Member Screenshots
185: Downloads
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: Downloads
191: Community Forums
192: Downloads
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Home
196: Search
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Home
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Member Screenshots
209: News Archive
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: News Archive
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Member Screenshots
224: Member Screenshots
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: News Archive
234: Community Forums
235: Member Screenshots
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Member Screenshots
242: Community Forums
243: News
244: Statistics
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Member Screenshots
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Member Screenshots
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Downloads
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Member Screenshots
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Downloads
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: News Archive
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: News Archive
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: News
293: Home
294: Member Screenshots
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Member Screenshots
298: Member Screenshots
299: Downloads
300: Downloads
301: News Archive
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Photo Gallery
308: News Archive
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Member Screenshots
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: News
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Member Screenshots
328: Member Screenshots
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Member Screenshots
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: News Archive
344: Downloads
345: Member Screenshots
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: News Archive
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Photo Gallery
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Member Screenshots
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Your Account
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Member Screenshots
377: Member Screenshots
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Downloads
383: Member Screenshots
384: Photo Gallery
385: Downloads
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Member Screenshots
391: Community Forums
392: Downloads
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: News Archive
398: Home
399: Member Screenshots
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Photo Gallery
405: Photo Gallery
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Home
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Member Screenshots
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Photo Gallery
422: Home
423: Downloads
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Photo Gallery
427: Downloads
428: News Archive
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Downloads
433: Statistics
434: Member Screenshots
435: Community Forums
436: News Archive
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: News Archive
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: News Archive
445: Community Forums
446: Member Screenshots
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Community Forums
450: Home
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Downloads
456: Home
457: News Archive
458: Photo Gallery
459: News Archive
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Home
467: Member Screenshots
468: Community Forums
469: News Archive
470: Home
471: Photo Gallery
472: Photo Gallery
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Member Screenshots
476: News Archive
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Member Screenshots
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Your Account
491: News
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: News Archive
496: Downloads
497: Member Screenshots
498: Home
499: Member Screenshots
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Statistics
507: Community Forums
508: Member Screenshots
509: Home
510: Home
511: Home
512: Member Screenshots
513: Community Forums
514: News Archive
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Photo Gallery
521: Member Screenshots
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: News Archive
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Photo Gallery
534: Downloads
535: Member Screenshots
536: Home
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: News Archive
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Home
559: Downloads
560: Community Forums
561: Member Screenshots
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Home
568: Search
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Downloads
576: Home
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Photo Gallery
582: Your Account
583: Community Forums
584: Downloads
585: Home
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Downloads
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Member Screenshots
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: News Archive
600: Contact
601: Community Forums
602: Downloads
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: Community Forums
606: Home
607: Photo Gallery
608: Home
609: News Archive
610: Community Forums
611: Home
612: Home
613: Member Screenshots
614: Statistics
615: Community Forums
616: News Archive
617: Community Forums
618: News
619: Member Screenshots
620: Community Forums
621: Photo Gallery
622: Statistics
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Downloads
627: Photo Gallery
628: News Archive
629: Home
630: Member Screenshots
631: Photo Gallery
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Home
635: Photo Gallery
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Member Screenshots
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Member Screenshots
644: Community Forums
645: News Archive
646: Community Forums
647: Downloads
648: Photo Gallery
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Downloads
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: News
656: Community Forums
657: Home
658: Home
659: Home
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Downloads
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Photo Gallery
669: Community Forums
670: Downloads
671: Photo Gallery
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: Photo Gallery
676: Downloads
677: Community Forums
678: Home
679: Community Forums
680: Home
681: Community Forums
682: Member Screenshots
683: Home
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Member Screenshots
688: Home
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Member Screenshots
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Member Screenshots
696: Member Screenshots
697: Community Forums
698: Photo Gallery
699: Photo Gallery
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Home
703: Photo Gallery
704: Home
705: Member Screenshots
706: Community Forums
707: Downloads
708: Community Forums
709: Member Screenshots
710: Member Screenshots
711: Home
712: Downloads
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Photo Gallery
718: Downloads
719: Community Forums
720: Member Screenshots
721: Community Forums
722: Home
723: Home
724: Community Forums
725: Member Screenshots
726: Home
727: Member Screenshots
728: Downloads
729: Home
730: News
731: Community Forums
732: News Archive
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Home
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Member Screenshots
745: Photo Gallery
746: Home
747: Community Forums
748: Photo Gallery
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Photo Gallery
752: News Archive
753: Member Screenshots
754: Photo Gallery
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Snagged FSX "Accelleration" :: Archived
A forum for Microsoft's Flight Simulator X
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  FSX

Topic Archived View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:27 pm
Post subject: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

Heh heh.....first day of release, and Circuit City has it on sale for $17.99.....called ahead and reserved the last copy they had on the shelf at 3:00 today, half an hour later I was there pickin' it up.

Install is smooth, activation no problems, and so far have just taken a quick look but the Air Racing tutorial is a BLAST and I think this is gonna be a winner!

Really adds on a LOT.......damn, between the active moving carrier operations, new helo with a hoist and operable attachment for picking up and dropping off loads, the racing, the new planes, new sceneries, the missions, and then the SP2 performance enhancements, this is looking like a total WINNER.

Rock-steady smooth 25 FPS (locked at that rate) in the air racing the whole time too......and gorgeous!








_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

Great News Stoopy !

I'll gonna scoot over to the shop here tomorow and see if I can pick one up Wink


fled
Cool
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number MSN Messenger Photo Gallery
Kitform
Bar Maid

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 2011
Location: Cleveland. UK.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

First release in the USA, then released for Europe 2nd November... Can't wait.
Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Shadow_Bshwackr
Janitor

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 7019
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

Mr. Green OH BOY!! Thanks for the heads up Stoopy!
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

Well here's more to the heads-up.....with the SP2 changes and performance improvements, seems to be some changes with backward compatibility. I'm noticing that Alpha textures are behaving differently on FS9 aircraft I had already pulled into the sim.

I'm going to try to find out what it is and what the fix is....

F'rinstance, the beloved Junkers Ju-52......a clear day over KLAX reveals that a whole BUNCH of Windex is gonna be needed to clean the fargin' windows of the VC now.....before there was a just a tiny little bit of dirt and grime, but this may call for a whole tub of that Oxy-Clean stuff that Billy Mays yells about in his TV commercials....




_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

looks like the grime layer got exaggerated, maybe when you tone that one down it's fine again ?? maybe to simply tought from me.. Rolling Eyes
on the other hand, a build in M$ modification to make the "old" addons history ?? Evil or Very Mad
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number MSN Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

I think some things may have been expected. In following the whole development history for the last year, there were changes to rendering to improve performance, and in general the community feedback to the developers has been to drop backwards-compatibility in favor of moving forward with better performance and new features.

I believe you're right and when I get time I'll experiment. I believe it can be overcome and I do have other FS9 aircraft that don't have this issue so I can't help but believe it's fixable.

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
HF_SlowHand
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:44 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

thats just normal "LA Air" you collected on the windscreen there mate LOL

_________________
I deny everything
I lie about everything
And everything I deny
Is a lie!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Shadow_Bshwackr
Janitor

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 7019
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

Maybe you should get rid of that cleaning person that 'doesn't do windows!" Wink

Are all the FS9 imported aircraft that way or just this Junkers?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:06 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

- Shadow_Bshwackr
Maybe you should get rid of that cleaning person that 'doesn't do windows!" Wink


Maybe it's about time you started to pay some decent wages around here Laughing rotflmao Laughing

I've ordered my copy today, it will be available as from November 2nd so till then I'll have to drool over your reports Stoopy ! Wink


fled
Cool
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number MSN Messenger Photo Gallery
Shadow_Bshwackr
Janitor

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 7019
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:12 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

LOL Fled. If you want to do windows, I'll give you twice what you make now... Wink Shocked Cool

I have to wonder if the glass transparency effects file should be explored?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

So far it's just this Junkers. My beloved Airhead Super Decathlon from FS9 doesn't have the issue. You hit the nail on the head Bushy, that it's due to alpha transparencies on only certain window textures that have dirt or reflection added to them (i.e., are "partically transparent").

Also it seems to be tied to the technique used. I posed the question over at AvSim and got a very helpful reply to convert the said window textures to 32-bit (888-8) format in DXTBMP but that hasn't fixed it yet. But, this particular aircraft uses a nAlpha layer that is non-uniform (i.e., also has the dirt and grim ine the alpha layer) which I've not seen done a lot before. So tonight I will try changing the alpha layer to just a consistent pure-black layer and that OUGHT to fix it. Then I'll reduce the blackness slightly to make it semi-transparent as intended.

SEE HERE...

May sound complicated but the whole thing will take less time than it did to type that I think. So I'm optimistic, and will let y know how it goes. If it works out I'd be happy to make the same mods to any other aircraft that may have this problem for others.


_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

Problemo solved!

The above suggestion didn't work so I took another stab at it and did it my way...or I should say, the way I see it normally being done (the alpha layers on this bird were done in a way I've never seen before and I still can't understand how they worked in FS9). So I just replaced the alpha layer with a normal dark-gray bitmap and voila.....windows are transparent and also have just a fine layer of grime if you look closely.

Using what my wifey says is my "german method ("if it don't fit, FORCE IT!") worked wonders on this german bird!


_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:39 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

- JG300-Stoopy
Problemo solved!
Using what my wifey says is my "german method ("if it don't fit, FORCE IT!") worked wonders on this german bird!


APPLAUSE !!

Give that man a BARREL OF BEER !!!

Great job Stoopy !!

Much appreciated !!


fled
Cool
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number MSN Messenger Photo Gallery
Shadow_Bshwackr
Janitor

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 7019
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:37 am
Post subject: Re: Snagged FSX "Accelleration"

You heard it here first folks!...lol

Thanks Stoopy! You 'da man!

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  FSX
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Archive Revive
Username:
This is an archived topic - your reply will not be appended here.
Instead, a new topic will be generated in the active forum.
The new topic will provide a reference link to this archived topic.