±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 773
Total: 773
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: News Archive
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Member Screenshots
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Member Screenshots
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Member Screenshots
22: Photo Gallery
23: Home
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Home
28: Member Screenshots
29: Home
30: Statistics
31: Community Forums
32: Member Screenshots
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: News Archive
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Home
40: Home
41: Photo Gallery
42: Home
43: News Archive
44: Home
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Member Screenshots
49: Photo Gallery
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: News Archive
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Downloads
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Downloads
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Home
120: Downloads
121: Photo Gallery
122: Downloads
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Member Screenshots
130: Home
131: Home
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: News Archive
141: Home
142: Photo Gallery
143: Home
144: Member Screenshots
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Home
148: Home
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Member Screenshots
154: Home
155: News Archive
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Downloads
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Downloads
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Member Screenshots
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Member Screenshots
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Home
194: News Archive
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Home
199: Home
200: Member Screenshots
201: Photo Gallery
202: Member Screenshots
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: News Archive
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Photo Gallery
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Downloads
226: Downloads
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Downloads
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Member Screenshots
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Member Screenshots
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Downloads
260: Photo Gallery
261: News
262: Member Screenshots
263: News
264: News Archive
265: Home
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Member Screenshots
274: Photo Gallery
275: Downloads
276: Home
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Downloads
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Photo Gallery
290: Member Screenshots
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Downloads
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Downloads
308: Community Forums
309: Downloads
310: Member Screenshots
311: Home
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Member Screenshots
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Home
330: News Archive
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Statistics
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Member Screenshots
355: Downloads
356: Downloads
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Home
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Community Forums
367: News
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Downloads
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Downloads
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Member Screenshots
392: Community Forums
393: Member Screenshots
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Home
398: Photo Gallery
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Home
403: Downloads
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Search
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: News Archive
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: News
419: Community Forums
420: Downloads
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Home
443: Home
444: Home
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Member Screenshots
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Home
452: Home
453: Member Screenshots
454: Community Forums
455: Home
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Member Screenshots
460: Home
461: Photo Gallery
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Home
472: News Archive
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Member Screenshots
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Downloads
481: Member Screenshots
482: Photo Gallery
483: Home
484: Photo Gallery
485: Photo Gallery
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Downloads
493: Home
494: Home
495: Photo Gallery
496: Member Screenshots
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Downloads
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Downloads
505: Member Screenshots
506: Home
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: News Archive
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Member Screenshots
525: Member Screenshots
526: Downloads
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Home
535: Home
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Downloads
543: Community Forums
544: Member Screenshots
545: Community Forums
546: Photo Gallery
547: Member Screenshots
548: Home
549: Member Screenshots
550: News Archive
551: Community Forums
552: Home
553: Photo Gallery
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Home
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Home
593: Downloads
594: Community Forums
595: Home
596: Community Forums
597: Home
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Member Screenshots
601: Community Forums
602: Member Screenshots
603: Community Forums
604: Home
605: Home
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Downloads
610: Downloads
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Member Screenshots
620: Home
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Home
624: News Archive
625: Community Forums
626: Photo Gallery
627: Photo Gallery
628: Home
629: Home
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Member Screenshots
638: Home
639: Photo Gallery
640: Community Forums
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Home
645: Home
646: Community Forums
647: Your Account
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Downloads
652: Community Forums
653: Home
654: Downloads
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Member Screenshots
659: Community Forums
660: Home
661: Community Forums
662: Home
663: Home
664: Home
665: Statistics
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Community Forums
671: Member Screenshots
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: Community Forums
676: Member Screenshots
677: Home
678: Home
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Member Screenshots
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Home
686: Community Forums
687: Statistics
688: Member Screenshots
689: Home
690: Home
691: Photo Gallery
692: News Archive
693: Your Account
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Home
699: Home
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Photo Gallery
705: Community Forums
706: Member Screenshots
707: Member Screenshots
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Home
713: Home
714: Home
715: Home
716: Photo Gallery
717: Community Forums
718: Photo Gallery
719: Home
720: Home
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Photo Gallery
724: Community Forums
725: Photo Gallery
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Home
729: Community Forums
730: Member Screenshots
731: Home
732: Member Screenshots
733: Home
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Treasury
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Photo Gallery
742: Home
743: Home
744: Home
745: Home
746: Home
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Downloads
750: Home
751: Home
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Home
755: Community Forums
756: Downloads
757: Community Forums
758: News Archive
759: Photo Gallery
760: Community Forums
761: Home
762: News Archive
763: Home
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Home
768: Home
769: Downloads
770: Home
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Member Screenshots

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armada Michigan M48 hull with XM66 "D" Turret update
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:18 pm
Post subject: Armada Michigan M48 hull with XM66 "D" Turret update

Over the last few months I have been researching M48A3 history. This had led me to some conclusions which I am presenting here for review and comment.

This is the Armada Michigan tank that used to be on display at the old Detroit Tank Arsenal grounds in Warren MI. She is an interesting amalgam, consisting of what appears to be an M48A3 hull with the "D" model turret proposed for what eventually became the M60A2. Picture courtesy Walter Sobchak.

Armada MI Tank

I have acquired two first edition Tank Manuals for the M48A3 from June and July of 1963. These manuals were written using one of the two Prototype M48A1E2's, Registration Number 9A9551. She is pictured below, the image is from TM 9-2350-224-10, dated 11 JUL 1963.

M48A1E2

Notice she has only three support roller per side. In 1960 Chrysler took six M48A1's and upgraded them with AVDS-1790 Diesel engines and 105mm M68 guns. They were made using many M60 parts. Part of the conversion was to eliminate the number two and four support rollers and upgrading the fender and stowage layout similar to the M48A2.Here is a picture of RN 9A9551 as an M48A1E1.

M48A1E1

In the TM there is a picture showing the casting mark along the right side of the hull. It is located in front of the #5 road wheel arm bump stop. I compared it to a picture of the same spot on the tank in Armada MI. The mark appears to be identical, to include the "R" out of position on the first line. I also noticed the "HEAT" and "SERIES" numbers are the same. I have compared other casting marks from the same producer in the same spot and they do not have this misaligned "R" or the same numbers for either "HEAT" or "SERIES". The weld bead and imperfection also match up.

Casting mark comparison

Based on this casting mark, I am quite sure this hull is 9A9551. A historically significant vehicle in my opinion. She was one of only two prototypes for the M48A3 Tank. This tank was also provided to the USMC for their trails prior to receiving the M48A3. She is featured in "Patton" by RP Hunnicutt, page 222, and in "M48A3 in Vietnam" by David Doyle, page 4 and 10.

What is interesting is she now has the 152mm gun/launcher "D" turret installed. This was one of four proposed turrets initially designed to be on M60 hulls and was installed on M60 RN 9B4770 for a while. That tank also had what would eventually become the M60A2 turret installed, becoming the first M60A1E1.

M60 RN 4470 with "D" turret

Had this program survived, excess M60 turrets would have been installed on M48A1 hulls modified to M48A3 standards and would have been known as the M48A4. In order to install these M60 turrets, the turret ring was modified and raised 2" to accommodate the lower hanging turret floor. Two of these M48A4's were made. One was RN 9A9849, and is well documented in "Patton". I have not found any images or information of the other, to include her Registration Number. In the image below of the Armada tank, you can see a spacer that has been welded to the hull turret ring. Picture courtesy Walter Sobchak.

Turret ring spacer

The only reason I can think of why this was done would be to install a turret with a lower floor than the M48. This spacer may also help explain how this "D" turret designed for an M60 hull could be installed. Would be nice to see the inside of her to know if the floor is still there. M60A2 turrets have been installed on M48 hulls to make targets. The "Franken Tanks" on Fort Knox ranges are good examples. In order to make them they cut the floors off though. In any case, I believe 9A9551 was also used to make the other Pilot M48A4. The turret ring spacer along with her former location at the Detroit Arsenal as a display tank for TACOM helps support this theory. The M60 turrets used for the M48A4 pilots were eventually returned to their original hulls when the M60A1E1 was cancelled, therefore effectively canceling the M48A4.

I can only assume she was used as an automotive test rig or some other "Mule" before retiring. Might explain the diamond plate steps welded on the front slope. My guess is the "D" turret was mated to her for either weight or just to complete her when retired to make a display. Maybe someone thought they were both historically significant to save, or just easier to display than scrapping. Finding a picture of the other M48A4 would really help confirm or discount the M48A4 tie in. Either way, I welcome comments pro or con on my conclusions.

Thanks

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 909
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Armada Michigan M48 hull with XM66 "D" Turret update

Joe, Just wondering if You found any new information on the M48A3, Armada, MI, M48E1, M48E2, or M60 with type "D" turret. I'm always looking for data on pilot model and rare tanks. I have been working on data about the T95 Medium tank series for several years, hope to print it someday. Thanks, Rick Eshleman
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum