±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 261
Total: 261
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: News Archive
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Home
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Member Screenshots
18: Community Forums
19: Member Screenshots
20: News
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: News Archive
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Member Screenshots
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Downloads
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Home
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: News Archive
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Home
47: News Archive
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Home
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Member Screenshots
56: Community Forums
57: Statistics
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Member Screenshots
62: Downloads
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: News Archive
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: News Archive
75: Home
76: Member Screenshots
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Your Account
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Home
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Home
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: News Archive
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Photo Gallery
105: Member Screenshots
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Treasury
112: Community Forums
113: Member Screenshots
114: Home
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Members List
125: Photo Gallery
126: Member Screenshots
127: Member Screenshots
128: Home
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Member Screenshots
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Downloads
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Member Screenshots
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: News Archive
150: Home
151: News Archive
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Member Screenshots
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Member Screenshots
166: Photo Gallery
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Photo Gallery
171: Member Screenshots
172: Member Screenshots
173: Home
174: Photo Gallery
175: Downloads
176: Photo Gallery
177: Home
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: News Archive
181: Downloads
182: Photo Gallery
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Home
189: Downloads
190: News
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Member Screenshots
194: Home
195: Member Screenshots
196: Member Screenshots
197: Member Screenshots
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Downloads
209: Downloads
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Home
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Statistics
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Home
235: News
236: Home
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Home
251: Home
252: Home
253: Downloads
254: Member Screenshots
255: Member Screenshots
256: Home
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
New Visit to a familiar Sherman...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:01 am
Post subject: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Funny how you tank things forgranted just becuase they are close. The M4A3E8 in front of the Nebraska National Guard Museum in Lincoln Ne is an example. I have been on it multiple times over the years and have taken many photos, but today I found stuff I hadn't seen before. Maybe it was the new glasses?

First, the old girl does have a factory number on the right hand upper glacis. Unfortunately it's been painted over so many times that you can only really be sure of the "1" .

Gary B.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Another detail - this tank is not an original HVSS! I had looked at the front HVSS bogie brackets and they have bolts down the sides, but the top is welded on, then I looked at the #2 and #3 brackets and guess what - welded on! Here is the right front bracket.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

here is the left #2 bracket. Note the bolt holes are on the bracket, but the bracket is welded in place.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:32 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Here is a shot of the welded on idler bracket on the tank's right side
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Here are the casting numbers on the top front of the turret - these are the only cast on marks on that turret
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

These are the numbers cast on the drivers hatch casting on top of the hull - these are the only casting numbers I could find on the hull.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Gary

Neat catch.

If you have the SN off of the rear tow eyelets I'll bet 'someone' might be able to determine if the tank was a returned combat veteran, rebuilt in the late 40's/50's.

Too bad you can't get inside to see if data plate is present....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Kurt Laughlin once asked about weld scars on the rear (possibly indicating spare track brackets from a VVSS hull). I thought there were not. Today it occurred to me that the pitting on the left of the rear plate is suspiciously in two straight lines. I didn't they were weld scars, but perhaps these are the remains of ground-off weldments???
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

- Dontos
Neat catch. If you have the SN off of the rear tow eyelets I'll bet 'someone' might be able to determine if the tank was a returned combat veteran, rebuilt in the late 40's/50's. Too bad you can't get inside to see if data plate is present.... Regards
Don


I agree. The towing lugs are covered in paint, etc. I would have to get permission to scratch off the paint. Unfortuantely, the blasted ArNG gave it a GI paint job of CARC green. EGAD! I'd probably have to use a blow torch to burn that stuff off.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

For trivia buffs, here is a shot of a mediocre job of welding up the opening for a 2" smoke mortar.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Ballpeen hammer & Sandpaper will do the trick.....

CARC is some nasty stuff, don't torch it.....

The easier solution is to attempt to gain official (or unofficial...he he he) access. Even if the data plate is not present, the SN will be stamped in the hull 'behind' the data plate on the drivers compartment left side sponson.

Besides, there might be other data plates present to give some dated references on the main gun mount, and then theres the stamped info in the breech and gun tube....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Hi Folks!

- binder001

Here is a shot of the welded on idler bracket on the tank's right side


Notice the cut in the edge of the hull to the left of the mount.

Over on Missing Lynx those cuts came up. Here is what was posted over there:

If it was a clean cut, the hull was build at the factory for the E8 system.
If the cut was done with a cutting torch, then is was a post factory conversion.

The cut provides clearance to remove the inter road wheels without removing the bogie.

Not an origanal E8?

I am confuzed by the Sherman once again!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Don't know where the photo went, but it is the third one down from the top.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:18 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

- Roy_A_Lingle


Notice the cut in the edge of the hull to the left of the mount.

Over on Missing Lynx those cuts came up. Here is what was posted over there:

If it was a clean cut, the hull was build at the factory for the E8 system.
If the cut was done with a cutting torch, then is was a post factory conversion.

The cut provides clearance to remove the inter road wheels without removing the bogie.

Not an origanal E8?

I am confuzed by the Sherman once again!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Don't know where the photo went, but it is the third one down from the top.


That rule of thumb is mostly correct, but not completely. There are converted tanks with clean hull cuts. The definitive feature is how the bogies, idler brackets, and return roller brackets were attached. If they use plug welds and have a weld all around their perimeter, it is a VVSS tank converted to HVSS. If the brackets use bolts in all locations, the tank was built as HVSS.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

So this tank, which I assumed for years to be "hum drum" was in fact a VVSS M4A3 that was depot converted to HVSS? Funny how you can still learn new things about "old friends".

Does the presence of a factory number on the glacis give a hint as to the factory?

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Hi Gary:

Yup, ex-VVSS. The scars on the rear plate are where the VVSS track block holders were attached:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age37.html

Without the serial though, you can't tell if it originally was a 75mm, 76mm, or 105mm tank.

I can't see exactly where than number comes from but most likely not. On large hatch M4A3s there are two key features that tell the factory:

1. Notch by differential bolt strip (shape of the weld filler)

On Fisher tanks it is rectangular, indicating the bolt strip was finish machined using a pain milling cutter:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age23.html

Chrysler apparently used an end mill, leaving a D-shaped notch and filler:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age20.html

2. Hull side stampings

Fisher put their build or sequence numbers on the left front corner:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age44.html

While Chrysler put theirs on the right side edge of the glacis plate itself, as seen on page 11 of my guide:

www.scribd.com/doc/194...-Locations

If you are willing to revisit some more of your "old friends", my offer of a paying for a tank of gas to help out still holds!

KL


Last edited by Kurt_Laughlin on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum