±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 310
Total: 310
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Member Screenshots
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Member Screenshots
07: Home
08: Home
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Home
13: Home
14: Photo Gallery
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Home
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Member Screenshots
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Home
38: Downloads
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Member Screenshots
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Member Screenshots
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Home
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Member Screenshots
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Home
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Home
81: Home
82: Member Screenshots
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Home
101: Home
102: Member Screenshots
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Downloads
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: News
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Member Screenshots
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Home
149: Member Screenshots
150: News
151: Photo Gallery
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Home
163: Downloads
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Downloads
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Downloads
188: Home
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Home
209: Downloads
210: News
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: Member Screenshots
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Member Screenshots
240: Member Screenshots
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Photo Gallery
248: Photo Gallery
249: Home
250: Home
251: Treasury
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Home
269: Your Account
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Downloads
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Member Screenshots
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Photo Gallery
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Preserved Tanks in Brazil
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:54 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back.

- vmmv1
The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc


Absolutely! Any information and pictures much appreciated.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti
- Doug_Kibbey

BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles...


I think you are referring to this:
www.militarytrader.com...iscovered/

One of the tank end up in Switzerland:
www.flickr.com/photos/...4249113513

At least another one is in England:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716


Since getting back from holiday I've been working on identifying and tracking down the Stuarts from Brazil, starting with the two highlighted by Massimo (see the relevant country threads). In addition I have identified and partly tracked another 10 or so. I have updated the two locations with information and pictures from a correspondent in Brazil, Paulo Bidoli:

Itupeva

Bragança Paulista



- more details to follow on the other Stuarts

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:25 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

My trip to Brazil has been brought forward so I'll soon be off the forum for a week.

- the_shadock
Trevor,

I would be glad to get some photos from you if you are lucky enough to get access to the tanks during your visit (most of them are located on military bases).

I would be curious to get photos from the Sherman tanks too, especially from small hatches versions.

P-O


P-O, I'll bear that in mind. If I get to any military bases, though, I only expect to be able to take photos from outside the perimeter.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock
Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O


Thanks for that, I'll follow that up soon.

In the meantime the first pictures from my Brazil trip are online (68 pictures, 4 tanks):


Unique ID 860: L3-35, Linhares




Unique ID 1053: Renault FT, Linhares




Unique ID 1815: M3 Stuart, Linhares




Unique ID 1733: M3A3 Lee, Linhares

[img]http:///PreservedTanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/IMG-6224_M3Lee_Linhares_AArchive_c.jpg[/img]

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.


Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey
Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.


The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.


Meanwhile, I've added some more pictures and info:


Unique ID 1390: M4 HST, Linhares




Unique ID 1514: M5 HST, Linhares




If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).


Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares




P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.



Unique ID 1727: M41B, Linhares




To give background to the M41B I have written up Bernardini, the upgraders:

Location 37580: Bernardini, Sao Paulo


_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum


The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.



I think the dynamic is basically that it's always safer to say "No", unless you're the boss, because nobody is going to chew your enlisted or junior officer butt out for being cautious, whereas there is no upside to saying "Yes"...the only thing that can happen is that maybe they won't get into trouble. I know you're a seasoned traveler, but I generally always had the advantage of some local work or scientific/medical colleagues who both always spoke the local language and sometimes "knew a guy who knew a guy".

It took me three tries to get in at the 5th RCC in Rio Negro. Twice to get into the MkIV at Bucharest and once to get a personal tour of Parola by the commandant. Each time was due to a local contact who made some calls. The offer of any museum or library gift items you can exchange doesn't hurt either.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:46 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares




P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.


Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
valls
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Rio de Janeiro - BRASIL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).


Both are Vickers Armstrong 7.2 in howitzers used by Brasilan Army heavy artillery units.

JAValls
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock
Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O


Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:43 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).


Trevor,

according to Joe DeMarco, it is possible that PCF transitioned from "blocky" lifting rings to regular cast lifting rings in January or February 1943. If it is true, the tank located at Linhares was manufactured between January and November 1943, we could exclude a manufacture of that tank in 1942.

The turret is not original to that thank. It is a "high bustle" turret (part number D78461), usually found on large hatches M4A3(75) W. You can see a description of this particular turrets there :
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/turret_types/turret_types.html

This turret was either placed on the tank during wartime, or maybe after the war by the Brazilians, for an unknown reason, but it is not the turret the tank had when it left the factory.

Indeed, this turret was built by PSF in Novembre 1944. I think that there is a typo in Kurt's "foundry markings PDF file". I've already seen Sherman turrets with similar markings, and dated 8-43, or 6-43. Here is an example :




P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Another quick note :

the cast lifting rings that can be seen on the tank at Linhares are not characteristic of PCF-made M4A1s.

Only the "blocky" lifting rings found on earlier PCF-made tanks are particular to Pacific Car & Foundry, here is an example :


The later "cast" lifting rings can be seen on other manufacturer"s tanks, like on Chrysler-made M4A4s, M4A3s and M4s for example :


so this is not a distinctive feature of a PCF-made tank. However, this is a distinctive featuer of a later PCF-made tank, given that the "blocky" lifting rings were probably replaced by the cast lifting rings in January or February 1943.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 3 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum