±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 800
Total: 800
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Your Account
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Home
13: Photo Gallery
14: Statistics
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Member Screenshots
20: News Archive
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: News Archive
29: Member Screenshots
30: Home
31: Member Screenshots
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Member Screenshots
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Member Screenshots
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Member Screenshots
47: News
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Member Screenshots
54: Downloads
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Downloads
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: News Archive
64: Member Screenshots
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Downloads
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Home
102: Downloads
103: News
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: News
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Member Screenshots
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: News Archive
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Member Screenshots
133: Home
134: Photo Gallery
135: Downloads
136: Home
137: Downloads
138: Home
139: News Archive
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: News
143: Member Screenshots
144: Member Screenshots
145: Downloads
146: Member Screenshots
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Home
150: Home
151: Member Screenshots
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Photo Gallery
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: News Archive
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Treasury
173: Community Forums
174: Member Screenshots
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: News
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Member Screenshots
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Member Screenshots
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Downloads
207: Member Screenshots
208: Home
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: News Archive
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Member Screenshots
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Downloads
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Downloads
235: Your Account
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Downloads
241: Member Screenshots
242: Home
243: News Archive
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Member Screenshots
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: News Archive
260: Community Forums
261: Downloads
262: Community Forums
263: Member Screenshots
264: Photo Gallery
265: Downloads
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: News
269: Downloads
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Downloads
276: News Archive
277: Downloads
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Home
292: Home
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Home
297: Home
298: Photo Gallery
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Member Screenshots
307: Home
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Statistics
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Downloads
320: News Archive
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: News Archive
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Member Screenshots
330: Downloads
331: Member Screenshots
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: News Archive
343: Downloads
344: Member Screenshots
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Member Screenshots
350: Home
351: Home
352: Your Account
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: News Archive
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: News Archive
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Member Screenshots
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Member Screenshots
372: Member Screenshots
373: News Archive
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: Downloads
378: News Archive
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Downloads
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Downloads
391: Member Screenshots
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: News Archive
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Statistics
401: Downloads
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: News Archive
406: News Archive
407: Member Screenshots
408: Downloads
409: Community Forums
410: News
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Downloads
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: News Archive
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: News
426: News Archive
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Member Screenshots
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Downloads
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Member Screenshots
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: News
452: Your Account
453: Home
454: News Archive
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Home
458: Home
459: Home
460: Member Screenshots
461: Home
462: Home
463: Your Account
464: Statistics
465: Community Forums
466: Member Screenshots
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: News Archive
472: Community Forums
473: Member Screenshots
474: Photo Gallery
475: Member Screenshots
476: News Archive
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Member Screenshots
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Member Screenshots
486: Home
487: Home
488: Home
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Home
493: Home
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: News Archive
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Home
500: Member Screenshots
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Statistics
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: News Archive
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Member Screenshots
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: News Archive
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Member Screenshots
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Statistics
530: Community Forums
531: Member Screenshots
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Home
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Member Screenshots
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Member Screenshots
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Member Screenshots
556: Home
557: Home
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Member Screenshots
562: Community Forums
563: Supporters
564: Member Screenshots
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Member Screenshots
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Photo Gallery
581: Downloads
582: News Archive
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Home
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: News Archive
597: Home
598: Home
599: Home
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Home
603: News Archive
604: Home
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: Community Forums
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Photo Gallery
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Downloads
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: News Archive
621: Home
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Photo Gallery
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Home
630: News Archive
631: News Archive
632: News
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Member Screenshots
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Home
642: Home
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: News Archive
647: Statistics
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Photo Gallery
652: Member Screenshots
653: Member Screenshots
654: Community Forums
655: Member Screenshots
656: News Archive
657: Member Screenshots
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Member Screenshots
661: Member Screenshots
662: News
663: Member Screenshots
664: Photo Gallery
665: Member Screenshots
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Community Forums
669: Downloads
670: Member Screenshots
671: Home
672: Community Forums
673: Home
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: News Archive
678: Your Account
679: Home
680: Home
681: Community Forums
682: Photo Gallery
683: Community Forums
684: Downloads
685: News Archive
686: Home
687: Home
688: Photo Gallery
689: Member Screenshots
690: Home
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: News Archive
695: Photo Gallery
696: Home
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: Home
701: Member Screenshots
702: Home
703: Photo Gallery
704: Home
705: Member Screenshots
706: Community Forums
707: Member Screenshots
708: Home
709: Member Screenshots
710: Community Forums
711: Member Screenshots
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: News
715: Community Forums
716: News Archive
717: News Archive
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: News Archive
723: Member Screenshots
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Photo Gallery
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Member Screenshots
737: News Archive
738: News Archive
739: Community Forums
740: Home
741: Community Forums
742: Photo Gallery
743: Home
744: Home
745: News Archive
746: Community Forums
747: Photo Gallery
748: Home
749: Home
750: Home
751: News Archive
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Home
755: Photo Gallery
756: Home
757: Home
758: Community Forums
759: Home
760: Photo Gallery
761: Home
762: News Archive
763: Community Forums
764: News Archive
765: Search
766: Member Screenshots
767: Home
768: Member Screenshots
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Member Screenshots
773: Photo Gallery
774: News Archive
775: Community Forums
776: Community Forums
777: News Archive
778: Community Forums
779: Photo Gallery
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: Home
783: Downloads
784: Community Forums
785: Photo Gallery
786: Community Forums
787: Home
788: Home
789: Community Forums
790: Your Account
791: Downloads
792: Home
793: Community Forums
794: Member Screenshots
795: Community Forums
796: News Archive
797: Community Forums
798: Your Account
799: Community Forums
800: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Sherman Tank found buried on French beach
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:29 pm
Post subject: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Get your bucket & spade out P-O!
www.varmatin.com/artic...98101.html
www.varmatin.com/artic...98103.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Hi Panzer E! Hi Folks!

I take it the first link/photo is what was first seen and in the second link/photo is what was under the sand?

Was it in the Normandy area, Southern France or some where else?

Any info on who will be taking it?

Very interesting! Super Thanks Panzer E!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Hello guys,

many thanks for the links. Indeed, this tank was already listed in the France AFVs register (page 93 of the current version) :

"SAINTE-MAXIME (83120)
La Nartelle beach
M10 Tank Destroyer?? USA/FRA wre Hull totally buried 332

332 Information from “MDS”, Sudwall Superforum, January 2007.
"

From the sources I had, people thought that the tank was an M10 Tank Destroyer, but it is obvious in the article that the old guy shows a photo of a French M4A4.



P-O

"Was it in the Normandy area, Southern France or some where else?"

this beach is part of the Southern France landing beaches (15 August 1944).

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Yes the seaborne invasion that in fact was larger than the Normandy landings, a fact not many people observe or even know :).

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Being an M4A4, was it in fact "abandoned by American soldiers after their heroic landing" as the newspaper article states?

I have to admit I'm not up to scratch with the units involved in the landing, could anyone make an educated guess to which this M4A4 belonged?

Here are some more photos, as one can see excavation has begun:
nicokubel.blogspot.com...donne.html


It seems there's not much left to use as a monument. Maybe the best option is to stand it upright?!?

H.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Hello,

the 1st landing on the La Nartelle Beach (Sainte Maxime), on 15 August 1944, was done by the US 45th Infantry Division.

On 16 August 1944, the French 1st Army started to land on the different beaches of Southern France.

The French 1st Armored Division and 5th Armored Division were part of the French 1st Army. I don't know which French units did land on La Nartelle Beach.

French 1st AD : 2ème Régiment de Chasseurs d'Afrique (2ème RCA)
2ème Régiment de Cuirassiers (2ème Cuirs)
5ème Régiment de Chasseurs d'Afrique (5ème RCA)

French 5th AD : 1er Régiment de Chasseurs d'Afrique (1er RCA)
1er Régiment de Cuirassiers (1er Cuirs)
6ème Régiment de Chasseurs d'Afrique (6ème RCA)

Among these units, the M4A4 was used by :
2ème RCA, 2ème Cuirs, 1er RCA and 1er Cuirs.

So, this particular tank should belong to one of these 4 units, or maybe another French unit that had M4A4s.

I doubt this was used by an American unit.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates


Last edited by the_shadock on Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

I have found that the French 2ème Cuirs did land on La Nartelle beach on 16 August 1944 :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2e_régiment_de_cuirassiers

2ème RCA did land on La Nartelle on 9 September 1944 :
http://2chasseursdafrique-memoires.over-blog.com/categorie-11790539.html

don't know about the other units.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

http://www.micromax.tv/film.php?idvideo=603

there is a 11 minutes video there, which shows the tank being pulled off the sand, and being put in the sea water to prevent further damages due to the removal of the sand.
The city has to contact a laboratory to put something on the tank, to prevent corrosion and further damages. They want to display it as a monument.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
T26E4
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:11 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Some ex-British M4A4s were handed to a few US engineering units prior to the invasion. It is a possible that it was landed by Americans.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

- T26E4
Some ex-British M4A4s were handed to a few US engineering units prior to the invasion. It is a possible that it was landed by Americans.


I would be interested to get more information about this.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

P-O,

Thanks for digging in the history of the French units plus the video.
Here's hoping the local historians will put some effort in sorting out the tank's history, rather than assuming it's American.

Hanno

PS this is the link that worked for me www.micromax.tv/iphone...dvideo=603
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:59 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

Hi Hanno! Hi Folks!

- Hanno_Spoelstra

Here's hoping the local historians will put some effort in sorting out the tank's history, rather than assuming it's American.
Hanno


Lets hope the local historians are only talking about were the tank was made and given time they will be able to nail down the unit that lost it.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
claude_GILLONO
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Tank found buried on French beach

- the_shadock
- T26E4
Some ex-British M4A4s were handed to a few US engineering units prior to the invasion. It is a possible that it was landed by Americans.


I would be interested to get more information about this.

P-O

Steve Zaloga wrote something about this in his Concord about the Specialized Shermies: Dozer-blade equipped Sherman Vs were used in 7th Army.
There is also a photo of a Crab entering St Lô (Sherman V too, of course) when the US forces cleared the town (called Hun Chaser)
HTH
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum