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New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:21 am
Post subject: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

Hi Folks!
This is a new vehicle at the Ft Bliss musuem. The serial number is 204.

The Post CSGM also has a second M109 like this one. It should be showing up as a gate guard in the future. Both vehicles are ex-White Sand Missile Range targets. Why the ? mark in my title. I know the short barrel ones are plain M109s (or M109A0) and the long barrel ones are A1, A2, A3, A4(?) or A5s(?). I know what a Palidan M109A6 looks like.

????????Updated Feb 6, 2011 with more photos and some questions!?????

Anyone see anything out of place with the below picture? Missing headlights, brown paint job, and odd bumper markings don't count.




Notice that the above vehicle doesn't have any recoil spades. Something that the M-108s didn't have but all M-109s did.


In the photo above, notice the cheap travel lock for the 155 barrel and the M108 type gun matel and the travel lock for a 105mm gun barrel.


The above vehicle is the PCSM's future gate guard. Note it has the same travel lock and same gun matel as the museum's vehicle. The recoil spades are also missing.


What type of M-109s are these beasts?

Spot Report!
Sgt Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Doug_Kibbey
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Posts: 4667
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss M109A? 155mm Sp

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I know the short barrel ones are plain M109s (or M109A0)
Spot Report!
Sgt Scouts Out!


Now, how would you happen to know that with any certainty? Wink
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:27 am
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss M109A? 155mm Sp

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I know the short barrel ones are plain M109s (or M109A0)
Spot Report!
Sgt Scouts Out!


Now, how would you happen to know that with any certainty? Wink


Well, let's see. A long, long, long time ago in a land far, far, far away there was a unit called The Blackhorse and that little outfix had 18 of those short barrel thingies! So long ago......

What?
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Doug_Kibbey
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Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:36 am
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss M109A? 155mm Sp

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I know the short barrel ones are plain M109s (or M109A0)
Spot Report!
Sgt Scouts Out!


Now, how would you happen to know that with any certainty? Wink


Well, let's see. A long, long, long time ago in a land far, far, far away there was a unit called The Blackhorse and that little outfix had 18 of those short barrel thingies! So long ago......

What?
Sgt, Scouts out!


I think we were down to six by your second tour. Wink
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tanker2010
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Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

It's a M108. Someone tried to vismod it or whatever to make it look like M109A1.
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Tichenor
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Posts: 458
Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

Hi

Only the M108, M109 and the M109A1/A3 had the mounting points for the flotation screen on the bow, however the biggest clue is at the rear.
Only the M108 has a two peace rear door in the hull.
Turrets are interchangable between M108 and M109, so only a picture from the top or the inside could show the difference here.
In my opinion, its a lot more work to change the gun than to swap the turret. And again however the recoil pistons are missing from the gun (could this be a mock-up)
My conclusion: lower hull M108, turret ???

Michel
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Tichenor
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Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

The more I look at those pictures, the more I'm convinced those guns are fake. On a real gun there should be a collar on the muzzle brake, here seems the gun tube and the muzzle brake one piece.

Michel
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tanker2010
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Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

My conclusion: lower hull M108, turret ???


It's a M108 turret. It has the gun mount of a M108 with a fake tube stuck in it. It also doesn't have the raised portion of the roof for the recuperator housing of a M109.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

Hi Folks!

Thanks for all the feed back folks!

I can't wait until next Monday. The M109 VisMod is gone. I hope it is now inside the musuem and maybe, just maybe I can get a look inside the turret. Wouldn't it be wild if the 105mm how is still there, under all that!

Let you know is I learn anything new.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:32 pm
Post subject: Re: New at Ft Bliss a pair of very strange 155mm Sp's

Hi Folks! Follow up update!

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

Thanks for all the feed back folks!

I can't wait until next Monday. The M109 VisMod is gone. I hope it is now inside the musuem and maybe, just maybe I can get a look inside the turret. Wouldn't it be wild if the 105mm how is still there, under all that!

Let you know is I learn anything new.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


It has been a year sense I posted the above! The vehicle has been cleaned up and repainted (outside only) and is now on display inside the building. Cannot open the rear hull hatch, the handle is broken off. But the TC's hatch is open.

A week ago last Monday I finally climbed up on the top and down through the TC's hatch. The 105mm is all there! One thing I was surpised to learn was the driver's position is connected to turret area. When the unit I was with at Ft. Riley, KS moved to Ft Bragg, NC I drove a M578 from the railhead over to the motor pool. The driver of a M578 cannot get into the turret and I guess I was thinking that was the way it was on the artillery vehicles.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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