±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 689
Total: 689
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Statistics
13: Photo Gallery
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Statistics
23: Downloads
24: Downloads
25: Home
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: Tell a Friend
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: News
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Member Screenshots
49: News Archive
50: Member Screenshots
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Member Screenshots
56: Community Forums
57: News
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: News
61: Community Forums
62: Downloads
63: Member Screenshots
64: Community Forums
65: Your Account
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: News
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: News Archive
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Home
84: Member Screenshots
85: Home
86: Home
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: News
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Photo Gallery
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Member Screenshots
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Member Screenshots
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: News
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: News Archive
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Member Screenshots
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Member Screenshots
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Member Screenshots
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Member Screenshots
140: News Archive
141: Community Forums
142: News Archive
143: Community Forums
144: Downloads
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Member Screenshots
150: Member Screenshots
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Member Screenshots
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Downloads
163: Downloads
164: Community Forums
165: Member Screenshots
166: Downloads
167: Home
168: Photo Gallery
169: Home
170: Tell a Friend
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: Community Forums
174: Member Screenshots
175: News Archive
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Member Screenshots
180: Member Screenshots
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Downloads
184: Downloads
185: Photo Gallery
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Home
193: Member Screenshots
194: Member Screenshots
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Member Screenshots
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Downloads
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Member Screenshots
215: News Archive
216: Statistics
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Downloads
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Downloads
226: Community Forums
227: Member Screenshots
228: Home
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: News Archive
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: News
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: News Archive
244: Home
245: Member Screenshots
246: Member Screenshots
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Supporters
254: Photo Gallery
255: Home
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Downloads
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: Member Screenshots
264: Home
265: News
266: Community Forums
267: Member Screenshots
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Member Screenshots
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Home
278: Downloads
279: Member Screenshots
280: Home
281: Member Screenshots
282: Member Screenshots
283: Downloads
284: Home
285: News Archive
286: Member Screenshots
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Member Screenshots
292: Downloads
293: Member Screenshots
294: Home
295: Home
296: Your Account
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Photo Gallery
302: Member Screenshots
303: Member Screenshots
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Tell a Friend
311: Photo Gallery
312: Photo Gallery
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Photo Gallery
316: Member Screenshots
317: Home
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Downloads
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Member Screenshots
325: Photo Gallery
326: Home
327: Member Screenshots
328: Downloads
329: News Archive
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Downloads
338: Community Forums
339: Member Screenshots
340: Photo Gallery
341: Downloads
342: News Archive
343: Home
344: Photo Gallery
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Member Screenshots
349: Photo Gallery
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Member Screenshots
358: Downloads
359: Search
360: Member Screenshots
361: News Archive
362: Community Forums
363: Downloads
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Statistics
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: News Archive
370: Downloads
371: Member Screenshots
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: News
375: Community Forums
376: Member Screenshots
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Member Screenshots
381: Member Screenshots
382: Member Screenshots
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Home
394: Member Screenshots
395: Community Forums
396: Member Screenshots
397: Member Screenshots
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: News Archive
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Your Account
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: News Archive
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Search
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: News Archive
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: News Archive
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: News Archive
430: Home
431: Home
432: News Archive
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Member Screenshots
437: Member Screenshots
438: Community Forums
439: Member Screenshots
440: Member Screenshots
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Photo Gallery
445: Downloads
446: Community Forums
447: Search
448: Photo Gallery
449: Downloads
450: News Archive
451: Community Forums
452: News Archive
453: Home
454: Member Screenshots
455: Community Forums
456: News Archive
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Member Screenshots
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Downloads
465: Member Screenshots
466: Home
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: News Archive
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: News Archive
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Downloads
483: Community Forums
484: Member Screenshots
485: Photo Gallery
486: Member Screenshots
487: Community Forums
488: News Archive
489: Community Forums
490: Member Screenshots
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: News Archive
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: News Archive
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: News Archive
510: Community Forums
511: News Archive
512: News Archive
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: LinkToUs
521: Home
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Downloads
526: Community Forums
527: Member Screenshots
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: LinkToUs
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Member Screenshots
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Member Screenshots
544: Photo Gallery
545: Member Screenshots
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Member Screenshots
551: Member Screenshots
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Member Screenshots
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Member Screenshots
563: News Archive
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Member Screenshots
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Home
576: Photo Gallery
577: Home
578: News Archive
579: Member Screenshots
580: Community Forums
581: Member Screenshots
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Treasury
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: News Archive
592: Community Forums
593: Downloads
594: Photo Gallery
595: Home
596: Community Forums
597: News Archive
598: Statistics
599: Member Screenshots
600: Member Screenshots
601: Member Screenshots
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: Home
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: Community Forums
608: Downloads
609: Community Forums
610: Your Account
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Home
616: Member Screenshots
617: Community Forums
618: Member Screenshots
619: Member Screenshots
620: Home
621: Community Forums
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Member Screenshots
627: Your Account
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Home
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: Member Screenshots
637: Home
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Member Screenshots
641: Member Screenshots
642: Community Forums
643: News Archive
644: Member Screenshots
645: Downloads
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Member Screenshots
657: Home
658: Member Screenshots
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Your Account
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Member Screenshots
678: Downloads
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Home
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: News Archive
688: Community Forums
689: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum