±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 291
Total: 291
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Member Screenshots
05: Home
06: News Archive
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Statistics
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Downloads
14: Home
15: Home
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Home
29: Downloads
30: Home
31: Home
32: Home
33: Home
34: Home
35: Home
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Home
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Member Screenshots
49: Home
50: Home
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Downloads
60: Home
61: Member Screenshots
62: Home
63: News Archive
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Home
67: Home
68: News Archive
69: Home
70: Downloads
71: Member Screenshots
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: News Archive
80: Home
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: News Archive
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Photo Gallery
89: Home
90: News Archive
91: Home
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Photo Gallery
96: Home
97: Photo Gallery
98: Home
99: Photo Gallery
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Downloads
114: Home
115: Home
116: Home
117: Home
118: Home
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Member Screenshots
126: Home
127: Home
128: Photo Gallery
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Member Screenshots
145: Home
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Home
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Member Screenshots
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Member Screenshots
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: News Archive
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Home
180: Home
181: Member Screenshots
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Home
186: Home
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Home
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: Downloads
198: Home
199: Home
200: Home
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Home
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Home
209: Member Screenshots
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Home
214: Home
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Home
219: Home
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Member Screenshots
227: Member Screenshots
228: Downloads
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Home
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Downloads
249: Member Screenshots
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Home
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Home
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Member Screenshots
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum