±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 1012
Total: 1012
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: News
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Photo Gallery
08: Home
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: News
13: News Archive
14: Photo Gallery
15: Home
16: News
17: Home
18: Photo Gallery
19: Photo Gallery
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Photo Gallery
24: News
25: News Archive
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Home
29: Home
30: News
31: News
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Downloads
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Home
45: Home
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Home
56: Downloads
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: News Archive
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Photo Gallery
63: Home
64: Home
65: Member Screenshots
66: Home
67: Downloads
68: Statistics
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Photo Gallery
85: Home
86: Statistics
87: Member Screenshots
88: Photo Gallery
89: Home
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Photo Gallery
93: Photo Gallery
94: Home
95: Photo Gallery
96: Photo Gallery
97: Home
98: Home
99: Member Screenshots
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Home
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: News
110: Home
111: Downloads
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Downloads
116: Home
117: Home
118: Downloads
119: Member Screenshots
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Home
124: Home
125: Home
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Home
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Home
133: Home
134: Photo Gallery
135: Downloads
136: Home
137: Downloads
138: Community Forums
139: Downloads
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Member Screenshots
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Downloads
148: Home
149: Downloads
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Statistics
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Photo Gallery
164: Home
165: Home
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Photo Gallery
169: Statistics
170: Home
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Downloads
174: Member Screenshots
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Downloads
178: Downloads
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Home
184: Home
185: Photo Gallery
186: Photo Gallery
187: Home
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Home
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Downloads
196: Photo Gallery
197: Downloads
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Member Screenshots
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Downloads
205: Photo Gallery
206: Downloads
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: News
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: News Archive
216: Downloads
217: Home
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: News Archive
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Home
230: Home
231: Downloads
232: Home
233: Home
234: Downloads
235: Home
236: Downloads
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Downloads
248: Downloads
249: Community Forums
250: Member Screenshots
251: Downloads
252: Photo Gallery
253: Downloads
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Statistics
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Member Screenshots
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Downloads
266: Home
267: Downloads
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Photo Gallery
272: Downloads
273: Home
274: Photo Gallery
275: Home
276: Downloads
277: Home
278: Photo Gallery
279: Home
280: Photo Gallery
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Downloads
292: Community Forums
293: Downloads
294: Community Forums
295: Downloads
296: Photo Gallery
297: Member Screenshots
298: Photo Gallery
299: Downloads
300: Photo Gallery
301: Home
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: Home
307: Photo Gallery
308: Home
309: Downloads
310: Photo Gallery
311: Downloads
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Downloads
322: Photo Gallery
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Home
332: Home
333: Home
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Downloads
337: Photo Gallery
338: Downloads
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Photo Gallery
343: Photo Gallery
344: Downloads
345: Home
346: Home
347: Photo Gallery
348: Downloads
349: Photo Gallery
350: Member Screenshots
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: News Archive
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Member Screenshots
358: Home
359: Photo Gallery
360: Home
361: Photo Gallery
362: Photo Gallery
363: Photo Gallery
364: Home
365: Home
366: Downloads
367: Photo Gallery
368: News
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Downloads
372: Member Screenshots
373: Photo Gallery
374: Photo Gallery
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Home
380: Home
381: Home
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Statistics
389: Downloads
390: Member Screenshots
391: Home
392: Photo Gallery
393: Statistics
394: Home
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Downloads
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Downloads
402: Photo Gallery
403: Home
404: Home
405: Home
406: Home
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Photo Gallery
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Downloads
418: Photo Gallery
419: Home
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Downloads
424: Photo Gallery
425: Member Screenshots
426: Member Screenshots
427: Photo Gallery
428: Your Account
429: News
430: Home
431: Member Screenshots
432: Home
433: Photo Gallery
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Statistics
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Home
447: Photo Gallery
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Home
451: News Archive
452: Community Forums
453: Member Screenshots
454: Home
455: Home
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Home
459: Home
460: Downloads
461: Statistics
462: Photo Gallery
463: Home
464: Member Screenshots
465: Downloads
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Downloads
469: Home
470: Member Screenshots
471: Community Forums
472: Downloads
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Downloads
476: Home
477: Home
478: Photo Gallery
479: Home
480: Home
481: Home
482: Home
483: Home
484: Home
485: Community Forums
486: Downloads
487: Community Forums
488: Downloads
489: Home
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Statistics
493: Home
494: Photo Gallery
495: Member Screenshots
496: Home
497: Home
498: Home
499: Home
500: Photo Gallery
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Home
504: Home
505: Downloads
506: Downloads
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Home
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Downloads
514: Tell a Friend
515: Member Screenshots
516: Photo Gallery
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Home
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Home
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Photo Gallery
530: Photo Gallery
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Home
535: Photo Gallery
536: Home
537: Home
538: Downloads
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Member Screenshots
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Home
546: Photo Gallery
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Photo Gallery
551: Community Forums
552: Home
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Home
556: Home
557: Home
558: Home
559: Member Screenshots
560: Community Forums
561: Downloads
562: Home
563: Home
564: Home
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Home
571: Downloads
572: Community Forums
573: News
574: Home
575: Home
576: Photo Gallery
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: Photo Gallery
581: Home
582: Home
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Home
586: News
587: News
588: Home
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Home
593: Home
594: Photo Gallery
595: Photo Gallery
596: Your Account
597: Home
598: Photo Gallery
599: Home
600: Home
601: Home
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Statistics
608: Home
609: Photo Gallery
610: Photo Gallery
611: Photo Gallery
612: Your Account
613: Photo Gallery
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: News Archive
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Downloads
623: Member Screenshots
624: Home
625: Community Forums
626: Photo Gallery
627: Photo Gallery
628: News
629: Downloads
630: Home
631: Home
632: Photo Gallery
633: Photo Gallery
634: Photo Gallery
635: Home
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Photo Gallery
639: Downloads
640: Home
641: Photo Gallery
642: Photo Gallery
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Home
646: Home
647: Home
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Downloads
651: Home
652: Photo Gallery
653: Your Account
654: Photo Gallery
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Home
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Home
664: Photo Gallery
665: Member Screenshots
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Home
671: Photo Gallery
672: Community Forums
673: Home
674: Community Forums
675: Downloads
676: Photo Gallery
677: Photo Gallery
678: Photo Gallery
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Photo Gallery
682: Home
683: Photo Gallery
684: Community Forums
685: Downloads
686: Photo Gallery
687: Downloads
688: Home
689: Home
690: Home
691: Community Forums
692: Home
693: Home
694: Home
695: Home
696: Home
697: Home
698: Home
699: Photo Gallery
700: Member Screenshots
701: Home
702: Downloads
703: Photo Gallery
704: Community Forums
705: Home
706: Photo Gallery
707: News Archive
708: Home
709: Your Account
710: Photo Gallery
711: Community Forums
712: Home
713: Member Screenshots
714: Home
715: Home
716: Home
717: Photo Gallery
718: Photo Gallery
719: Downloads
720: Photo Gallery
721: Home
722: Member Screenshots
723: Home
724: Photo Gallery
725: Home
726: Home
727: Photo Gallery
728: Downloads
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Home
732: Photo Gallery
733: Home
734: Home
735: Home
736: Downloads
737: Photo Gallery
738: Photo Gallery
739: Community Forums
740: Home
741: Home
742: Downloads
743: Downloads
744: Home
745: Home
746: Your Account
747: Home
748: Community Forums
749: Photo Gallery
750: Photo Gallery
751: Home
752: Search
753: Home
754: Photo Gallery
755: Photo Gallery
756: Statistics
757: Photo Gallery
758: Community Forums
759: Home
760: Community Forums
761: Home
762: Photo Gallery
763: Community Forums
764: Home
765: Photo Gallery
766: Member Screenshots
767: Home
768: Home
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Home
773: News
774: Photo Gallery
775: Home
776: Photo Gallery
777: Photo Gallery
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Statistics
781: Photo Gallery
782: Home
783: Photo Gallery
784: Home
785: News Archive
786: Community Forums
787: Photo Gallery
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Your Account
792: Home
793: Member Screenshots
794: Home
795: Community Forums
796: Home
797: Member Screenshots
798: Member Screenshots
799: Home
800: Home
801: Home
802: News
803: Home
804: Community Forums
805: Photo Gallery
806: Photo Gallery
807: Photo Gallery
808: Home
809: Photo Gallery
810: Community Forums
811: Downloads
812: Home
813: Home
814: Community Forums
815: Member Screenshots
816: Community Forums
817: Home
818: Community Forums
819: Community Forums
820: Home
821: Home
822: Photo Gallery
823: Photo Gallery
824: Member Screenshots
825: Home
826: Downloads
827: Photo Gallery
828: Community Forums
829: Photo Gallery
830: Photo Gallery
831: Photo Gallery
832: Home
833: Member Screenshots
834: Member Screenshots
835: Photo Gallery
836: Photo Gallery
837: Photo Gallery
838: Downloads
839: Home
840: Community Forums
841: Downloads
842: Photo Gallery
843: Community Forums
844: Downloads
845: Photo Gallery
846: Photo Gallery
847: Your Account
848: Home
849: Home
850: Photo Gallery
851: Photo Gallery
852: Community Forums
853: News
854: Community Forums
855: Photo Gallery
856: Member Screenshots
857: Home
858: Community Forums
859: Photo Gallery
860: Community Forums
861: Photo Gallery
862: Downloads
863: Community Forums
864: Photo Gallery
865: Community Forums
866: Home
867: Member Screenshots
868: Home
869: Photo Gallery
870: Photo Gallery
871: Downloads
872: Photo Gallery
873: Downloads
874: Community Forums
875: Photo Gallery
876: Statistics
877: Community Forums
878: Home
879: Photo Gallery
880: Downloads
881: Downloads
882: Member Screenshots
883: Downloads
884: Community Forums
885: Your Account
886: Community Forums
887: Community Forums
888: Home
889: Downloads
890: Community Forums
891: Home
892: Photo Gallery
893: Photo Gallery
894: Community Forums
895: Downloads
896: Photo Gallery
897: Community Forums
898: Home
899: Photo Gallery
900: Home
901: Home
902: Home
903: Home
904: Home
905: Home
906: Home
907: Home
908: Downloads
909: Home
910: Home
911: Photo Gallery
912: Photo Gallery
913: Statistics
914: Photo Gallery
915: News Archive
916: Photo Gallery
917: Downloads
918: Home
919: Photo Gallery
920: Member Screenshots
921: Home
922: Home
923: Member Screenshots
924: Home
925: Home
926: Photo Gallery
927: Statistics
928: Home
929: Community Forums
930: Community Forums
931: Home
932: Photo Gallery
933: Community Forums
934: Home
935: Downloads
936: Community Forums
937: Community Forums
938: Photo Gallery
939: Home
940: Photo Gallery
941: Home
942: Home
943: Home
944: Member Screenshots
945: Community Forums
946: Member Screenshots
947: Home
948: Photo Gallery
949: News
950: Community Forums
951: Photo Gallery
952: Home
953: Downloads
954: Home
955: Home
956: Home
957: News
958: Home
959: Home
960: Community Forums
961: Photo Gallery
962: Photo Gallery
963: Home
964: Your Account
965: Home
966: Home
967: Photo Gallery
968: Photo Gallery
969: Community Forums
970: Home
971: Home
972: Community Forums
973: Home
974: Community Forums
975: Member Screenshots
976: Home
977: Member Screenshots
978: News Archive
979: Home
980: Home
981: Photo Gallery
982: Home
983: Community Forums
984: Member Screenshots
985: Home
986: Photo Gallery
987: Member Screenshots
988: Home
989: Photo Gallery
990: Home
991: Photo Gallery
992: Photo Gallery
993: Home
994: Photo Gallery
995: Member Screenshots
996: Community Forums
997: Photo Gallery
998: Photo Gallery
999: Community Forums
1000: Home
1001: Member Screenshots
1002: Home
1003: Home
1004: Community Forums
1005: Photo Gallery
1006: Member Screenshots
1007: Home
1008: Member Screenshots
1009: Photo Gallery
1010: Home
1011: Community Forums
1012: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Combat FS for today ?
A general meeting place for all pilots!
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Officer's Club

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
401RCAF_Sly
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:10 pm
Post subject: Combat FS for today ?

HI Guys

Hope all are good and still kicking

Got to thinking that I really miss the great times we used to have with CFS versions.

Right here and now there is nothing on the shelves that fits the bill, so here's a few questions for all.

What would any of the MS series of CFS be capable of with todays hardware ?

Some may know that my profession is now a 3D modeller..... so I am considering making some state of the art stuff for one of the old CF sims.

I therefore need some info from anyone that may have kept more in the CF loop.

My preference is the MS series of CF simply because it has open architecture.. other titles such as IL2 are not accesible.

So here goes.
Can you still purchase any of the CFS series ?
Will they run on Win7 or 8?
Will they run on 64bit ?

I discount CFS1 as CFS2 is a similar platform but increased capability, so that leaves a choice between CFS2 and CFS3.
I know CFS3 never lived up to its predecessors, but I do like the multi crew aspect and believe that most disatisfaction was down to poor performance that should no longer be a problem with modern hardware and connection speeds.

I don't know but am hopefull that any cfs3 importer would let me import models with vastly superior complexity and texture resolution. Laughing

Gleening info from the FS series could such things as ground textures and maps be made to look acceptable by todays standards ?

All only musings and thinking out loud, but my tentative proposal is to build a lancaster and say a Ju88 or Me110 nightfighter, plus some up to date airfield structures.

Could we make it look good enough (no dynamic lighting) for 2013 ?

Anyone with any input most welcome to put forward their own thoughts.

My emphasis is on good visuals and immersion but most of all fun.
Realism of such things as FModels, switching sequences etc etc are not on the radar.

TBH.... the fanatical quest for "Realism " by the hard core ruined both FS and CFS genre's...... My opinion Smile

Have a great summer All

Sly_401 Still Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
Shades
Forum Tree-Rat

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 6481
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

Greetings Mr Sly sir, from EURO_Shades; RedSkwirrell; one of the pesky 'EW' apes, to mention but a few.
I am biased - always preferred CFS1, so:-

- 401RCAF_Sly
Can you still purchase any of the CFS series ?

Not new.
I have seen copies in second hand/charity shops (obviously all charity shops are aimed at EW apes) and Ebay.

- 401RCAF_Sly
they run on Win7 or 8?

Don't know.
Think 64-bit OS's have 32-bit options now.

- 401RCAF_Sly
I discount CFS1

BLASPHEMY!!!

- 401RCAF_Sly
as CFS2 is a similar platform but increased capability, so that leaves a choice between CFS2 and CFS3.

Totally disagree there, I'm afraid.
Of the three, I'd discount CFS2.

CFS3 is still being played by a pedantic few (see its' forum here).
CFS1 is outrageously primitive when compared to pretty much everything that came after.
Everything else is more realistic.
But CFS1 is still outrageously more enjoyable for competitive simple "fun" and camaraderie.
If I had the time to go back and take one up all over again, I'd choose CFS1, time and time and time again.
I still own CFS1, CFS2, CFS3, IL2, IL2 PF (and have a test credits) with god knows what else.

CFS1 could be updated and improved properly as it should hav been from the start (removing the 'cheat' that Tucker's lot should have done from the beginning), but it was the players that made CFS1 as much as the game and the environment.

I wish you great luck and good fortune with your project but I think, if you wanted to get anyone interested in retrospective Combat Simming, you should look at CFS1 and a hosting/chat environment.

Sadly, most of us have moved on now though.
And that's all of them.
My job takes up pretty much all of my time these days, Sly.
Other than eating (nanas, of course) and sleeping I am "The man" these days, a 'suit' and boring old fart.., AND DON'T ANYONE DARE SAY IT....!!!!

Razz

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 11 Home Advanced (64-bit).


Last edited by Shades on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Shadow_Homfixr
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL-USA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

I have to agree with Shades on CFS 1 being the most simple and fun. Maybe I am simple but a game to me is only fun if it is simple to play and because CFS1 was simple everyone had fun. CFS 1 would definately be my choice and like Shades, I propably still have the disc somewhere. CFS 2 was a little more complicated and CFS3 was just too much to keep up with to have fun...imo. Then IL came out(more complcated than CFS3) and I was completly lost so off to another simple game for me which was Ghost Recon. Then that got complicated so off to Joint Opps which I still play simply because it is simple and FUN. S!~

I think the programers today try too hard to make the games so realistic that they take the fun out of the game and only the real geeks( no names mentioned here Rolling Eyes ) can have fun.

hmmm imagine that... me agreeing with Shades...lol. Mr. Green

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Shades
Forum Tree-Rat

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 6481
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

- Shadow_Homfixr
hmmm imagine that... me agreeing with Shades...lol. Mr. Green

We all get old and wise sooner or later Homey.
Razz

- Shadow_Homfixr
I have to agree with Shades on CFS 1 being the most simple and fun. Maybe I am simple but a game to me is only fun if it is simple to play and because CFS1 was simple everyone had fun. CFS 1 would definitely be my choice and like Shades, I propably still have the disc somewhere. CFS 2 was a little more complicated and CFS3 was just too much to keep up with to have fun...imo. Then IL came out(more complicated than CFS3) and I was completely lost so off to another simple game for me which was Ghost Recon. Then that got complicated so off to Joint Opps which I still play simply because it is simple and FUN. S!~

I think programmers today try too hard to make the games so realistic that they take the fun out of the game and only the real geeks (no names mentioned here Rolling Eyes ) can have fun.


Zackly!
When we all asked Tucker and Oleg for more realism we meant graphically, scenically, and fix the 'cheat' code.
Me and Homey wuz gamers, not real pilots.
There are lots of folks who wanted more realistic control surfaces and environments and they got CFS3 and IL2 to go to.

The reasons the genre lost players is simple.
Less fun for gamers.
No Saturday night Ridge-Runner meets.
And no monkey-bashin'.

.....can I take that last one back?
I get bashed whether I'm a monkey, ape, or skwirrell (and I don't want Homey gettin' too excited thinkin' about bashin' his monkey)!


One more thing about CFS1.
It was SO much fun that, at least for me, it never mattered who won or lost (non-squad games anyway).
I had the honour and pleasure of 'flying' with some truly remarkable people.
Not just great exponents of the game, but great people.
The in-game chat humour was part of CFS1.
I enjoyed being beaten by them as much as I enjoyed beating them or flying as their wingman.
I'm still in touch with a few, but too many of them are not with us at all anymore.

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 11 Home Advanced (64-bit).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

- Shades
- Shadow_Homfixr
hmmm imagine that... me agreeing with Shades...lol. Mr. Green

We all get old and wise sooner or later Homey.
Razz

- Shadow_Homfixr
I have to agree with Shades on CFS 1 being the most simple and fun. Maybe I am simple but a game to me is only fun if it is simple to play and because CFS1 was simple everyone had fun. CFS 1 would definitely be my choice and like Shades, I propably still have the disc somewhere. CFS 2 was a little more complicated and CFS3 was just too much to keep up with to have fun...imo. Then IL came out(more complicated than CFS3) and I was completely lost so off to another simple game for me which was Ghost Recon. Then that got complicated so off to Joint Opps which I still play simply because it is simple and FUN. S!~

I think programmers today try too hard to make the games so realistic that they take the fun out of the game and only the real geeks (no names mentioned here Rolling Eyes ) can have fun.


Zackly!
When we all asked Tucker and Oleg for more realism we meant graphically, scenically, and fix the 'cheat' code.
Me and Homey wuz gamers, not real pilots.
There are lots of folks who wanted more realistic control surfaces and environments and they got CFS3 and IL2 to go to.

The reasons the genre lost players is simple.
Less fun for gamers.
No Saturday night Ridge-Runner meets.
And no monkey-bashin'.

.....can I take that last one back?
I get bashed whether I'm a monkey, ape, or skwirrell (and I don't want Homey gettin' too excited thinkin' about bashin' his monkey)!


One more thing about CFS1.
It was SO much fun that, at least for me, it never mattered who won or lost (non-squad games anyway).
I had the honour and pleasure of 'flying' with some truly remarkable people.
Not just great exponents of the game, but great people.
The in-game chat humour was part of CFS1.
I enjoyed being beaten by them as much as I enjoyed beating them or flying as their wingman.
I'm still in touch with a few, but too many of them are not with us at all anymore.


CFS3 had great potential, and I (and a few others) loved it. Then, certain individuals with corncobs up their 'chutes decided they had to have what they grandiosely deemed "1%" models, which is a self aggrandizing, fantasy-induced delusion of grandeur that had no friggin' business in what was meant to be a "no manipulation" game (and a "game" is exactly what it was meant to be and sold as). A few misguided souls decided that they could fly with (and as good as) Boyington, Bong and Anderson if only their models were accepted without question (and if you questioned it, you were a flat-earther with no worthwhile experience in life, issues like actual combat experence being invoked...regardless of whether it was in the air or on the ground). Apart from introducing a major "imcompatibility" factor into the game (meaning you couldn't enter a room if you didn't accept their "improvements") you also had to do a lot of fudging just to play the frickin' thing, which is exactly what the designers had sought to prevent. It took a couple of well-publicized pissing contests between designers (and some resignations from the process) to reveal the swindle for what it was...an "our way or the highway" ultimatum. Pretty much killed CFS3 (plus the introduction of a couple of cheats that sneaked by developers, but if you've ever seen a P-38 turn inside of a SpitPest, you know what I mean).

Somebody does all the hard work to introduce a "cheatless" game, and then somebodie(s) have to "improve" it in an attempt to appropriate it and make it theirs...all, of course, in the name of "product improvement".

That was the end of the "turnkey" plug-and-play flight combat sim, except for whatever happened to IL-2, with which I have zero experience and no interest in acquiring any.

There is a whole population of disenfranchised software customers out there who want to buy game, install game, and play game and not f*** around with registry modifications, etc. They have been completely abandoned. And in it's place, we have MMP games, a whole new generation of disappointment.

Rant off.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Shades
Forum Tree-Rat

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 6481
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:34 am
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

Yep.
Same with CFS1 and 2.
The "cheats" were actually developer shortcuts, left in deliberately by the developers for development purposes.
Next thing you know someone's found out and exploited them.
Bloody silly not to have fixed them a) before release, and b) when the players started asking for fixes.

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 11 Home Advanced (64-bit).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
A1Trigger_Happy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 778
Location: Alabama, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

I sure do miss CFS, CFS2, and Ghost Recon. Todays games just dont interest me anymore. That and not havin any time to play. What really made CFS was The Zone. Most of the time I wasn't flyin I was BSin with everyone in the Ridge. Sure do miss the old days.
Back to top
View user's profile
Shades
Forum Tree-Rat

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 6481
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

I never actually 'flew'.
I hadda listen to Twiggy BS.
His Mom made me!

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 11 Home Advanced (64-bit).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
401RCAF_Sly
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:53 am
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

- A1Trigger_Happy
I sure do miss CFS, CFS2, and Ghost Recon. Todays games just dont interest me anymore. That and not havin any time to play. What really made CFS was The Zone. Most of the time I wasn't flyin I was BSin with everyone in the Ridge. Sure do miss the old days.


Hi Guys have to agree with this..... It was the zone that made cfs1

How is it possible that something that popular can crash and burn into oblivion ?

Devs should have told the 1% ers to take a hike to the nearest airfield and lay out a couple of million on a real warbird.......... Something I do on a daily basis with my sim add ons

Its ART and its a GAME

Anyway I have ordered a copy of CFS3 as it is still available. but am struggling to find an exporter for 3DS Max..... it ws all GMax at that time.

CFS1 with up to date lighting, model, texture and terrain fidelity would do us all just proud Smile

Sly
Back to top
View user's profile
Shades
Forum Tree-Rat

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 6481
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

[quote="401RCAF_Sly"]
- A1Trigger_Happy
It was the zone that made cfs1

How is it possible that something that popular can crash and burn into oblivion ?

Standard M$ business model.
If your product doesn't work or is unsuccessful, defend it to the point of ridiculousness.
If your product does work, sell it to the death.
Then tell everyone it doesn't and give up on it.

Did the same with the FFB2 joystick.
Instant success.
M$ stopped making it almost immediately after release*.

*admittedly the bloody things kept breaking and were being replaced F.O.C. in the U.S. but that's just a QC issue*.

*admittedly M$ don't know what "QC" is.

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 11 Home Advanced (64-bit).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

Well, while we're commiserating about the state of things I might as well put in a coupla cents....

Pretty much, I've been doing air combat sims since there have been air combat sims...going back to Fighter Duel on the Commodore Amiga (dial-up your buddy's house via modem and fight one on one, hell yeah! Post the results on our SoCal Fighter Duel club BBS, because there ain't no internet yet!) and Sublogic Flight Simulator 2 on the IBM PC, which had a little grid-like WWI game built into it, where you dropped bombs from a Sopwith Camel and tried to shoot down the "Red Baron", all with black & white vector graphics and the keyboard....then there was Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, on 16-color EGA video and the rest.....all the way up to CFS1, 2 and 3, but 3 was really the first one I flew online a lot, and loved that, and I like to think that foray was wildly successful since it helped spawn a smelly cadre of flyers who have stuck together, more or less, for 10 years running now....

IMHO the thing that's killing air combat sims right now, besides the pay-to-play thing, is the requirement to have a fair bit of add-on hardware to remain competitive online. Not just a joystick, but one with enough buttons to map to the incredibly high number of (unnecessary) functions that are built into the sim. Like having to map a key or button to adjust radiator position, supercharger gearing, wheel chocks, tailwheel lock, and all that. Oh, in both directions, on and off.

You'll run out of buttons on the stick, so buy a throttle quadrant so you'll have a lot more buttons and some independent axis controllers for trim settings etc as well.

Gonna go that far, you'll need rudder pedals so you won't have to map extra stuff for rudder and brakes (my rudder pedals tilt for independant brakes just like the real deal...frees up some all-important buttons).

Want to know whats going on around you? You need a headset and microphone since *everyone* else is using teamspeak and noone hardly chats anymore, so to figure out where we're going and who we're bouncing, form what altitude, you need to be hooked up with sound and mic. OK, not a major investment, but the pile of equipment on the computer desk is growing...and you're running out of USB ports.

Finally, you'll probably get tired of getting shot down by those guys who seem to know how to sneak up on your six without being seen, and you've forgotten what POV hat switch on your joystick or throttle that you mapped the view commands to and which one you mapped the mixture and prop pitch settings to. So to make looking around easier, and remain competitive, you'll need a TrackIR headset, which is another $150 or thereabouts and now you can swivel your head around and up and down, and experience the magic of having your viewpoint in the game react smoothly and quickly....once you get used to swiveling your head while keeping your eyes pointed at a fixed position on the monitor. Take some Excedrin before the flight to deal with the headaches you may get as your eyes and brain adjust.

So you got all that gear and stuff, you're set. Good deal. Well, after you get it all mapped, configured, set up, and get over the slight feeling of motion sickness that you might get, because once this all works it really is very realistic, and now you remember that you're prone to airsickness.

Thing is, this might sound like it's unreasonable but what you now have is a very realistic, flexible setup that will provide an immersion level beyond your wildest hopes and dreams.

The ridiculous part is when that is completely *ruined* by ridiculous constraints within the sim. Case in point? Cliffs Of Dover, the Battle Of Britain sim from Maddox/Ubisoft that touts full realism and has all the aforementioned commands, buttons, keystrokes and mouse clicks you can image. There's a hour-long learning curve just to start the engine, which you eventually figure out starts by opening the fuel petcock just like on your motorcycle. OK, we asked for realism, we got it. My Messerschmitt is made by Triumph. Explains why the Brits won the war I guess.

Now get this... to fire the guns from a gunner position in a bomber like the He111, you map the keys to go to the gunner position you want, of course. Hit the button and you're there in the waist gunner position of your trusty He111 "Spade", so now press the button on the stick or mouse to fire at that Spit coming in, and...nothing. Hmmm. Read the book. Oh, OK, we have to *arm* the guns before we can shoot 'em. Fine, makes sense. Map a joystick button to this command, 'cause we plan on doing this a LOT. Ummm, gonna have to remap my engine controls to make room for another button assignment. Who needs supercharger gearing anyway.

Up and away we go again. Move to gunner position, arm the gun, press button, and....nothing. Hmmmm. Read book. Find something said about a "nestle" command. Scratch head. Watch YouTube video. Aha - "Nestle to Gunsight" is a command to tell your gunner (which is really yourself) to put your eye on the gunsight reticule (why didn't I know to do that already? Oh yeah because this is realism). OK fine. Need to map another button to that now. Hmmmm. OK. we'll get rid of the "jettison wing-mounted drop tanks" command and just fly short missions. Hopefully, my pilot character is smart enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, or I might have to map a new key or button in order to do that....

Take off into the wild blue. Here comes the Spit. Press hat switch to move to gunner position. Good. Press button to arm guns. Plane starts rolling left...oh crap I clicked the left aileron trim button by mistake.....click other button and dial in right aileron trim.....OK now... click the another button and the guns are armed. Click another button to nestle your little eye on that gunsight. Finally there. OK here we go....click fire button and hey it works! Tracers reach out and fall below and to the right of the Spit coming in on you....no problem, squeeze the trigger again and move the stick or mouse (whatever you mapped) up and to the left to walk to the tracers right into his engine compartment and cockpit....

...wait a minute, something else is wrong here, I can move the gun around when I'm not firing, but once I squeeze the trigger I can't adjust my aim at all, the gun is stuck and will only fire at one fixed point in space unless I stop firing, and only then can I adjust my aim.

Are you kidding me?

Read manual. Watch more YouTube videos. No clues.

Go to user group forum. Find out there is a "feature" wherein the sim does not support moving the machine gun while it's firing. It's not intentional, they just didn't think to program it into the sim.

You
Have
GOT
to
be
SH!!TT!NG
ME.


All that. A sim with ground-breaking realism, years in the making, hundreds of ridiculous command combinations - including a fuel petcock turny-on command for freakin' cipes sake....and a lengthy BETA test period.

And you can't even move a machine gun around in its mounts when you're firing. You have to adjust, fire, stop, adjust, fire, stop, lather rinse repeat.

One of the compelling reasons why I got Cliffs Of Dover is because, wayyy back in the late 80's, Lucas Arts published a pretty cool little simulator called Battle Of Britain. It had basic graphics and used only a mouse for everything. You flew with the mouse, shot with the mouse. I used to really enjoy taking off in my HE111 or BF110, bombing the snot out of an RAF airbase, and bagging Spits from the gunner positions on the way home back over the channel. It supported, like, EIGHT colors. It ran in 320x200 res or something ridiculous like that. But it was fun.

Fun, because I COULD MOVE THE FRIKKIN' MACHINE GUN TO ADJUST MY AIM WHILE I WAS FIRING!!!! JUST LIKE YOU CAN'T DO IN THIS GAWDAWFUL INSANELY LUNATIC COMPLICATED SIM EVEN WITH 3 USB CONTROLLERS, A HEADSET AND TRACKIR ALL CONNECTED, AND 64-BIT 1920X1080 GRAPHICS ON A 2GB VIDEO CARD AND FREAKIN' OCEAN WAVES MODELED BY FLUID DYNAMICS ALGORITHMS!

So I think that, in addition to the heavy marketing and questionable realism found in the more recent overblown and overbloated sims like War Thunder, tend to kind of put me off. War Thunder, fr'instance, seems to require that you "earn" your way into flying the plane you want, I can't just select a FW190 and go get 'em online. I have to start out my newbie pilot flying a German biplane, until I have enough "experience points" to move up to a better plane, which won't be a FW190 either. Don't want me to be too deadly in such a target-rich environment, I 'spose.

Cripes, I'm 52 years old and have been doing flight sims since 1983. Sadly that means I started when I was...22. (What was I thinking?!)

If I don't have enough experience for them, they can just friggin' bite me, right in the exact center of my well-muscled @ss.

Thanks for letting me vent. Where's the Tylenol....

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

- JG300-Stoopy
Well, while we're commiserating about the state of things I might as well put in a coupla cents....


I love a good Boss Hawg rant! Except they used to be a lot more fun-spirted and laugh-inducing, which tells me that he's REALLY pissed off!

And while we're at it, how about addon's from 2nd/3rd party developers who have an update every three days (and players who can't set up a room unless it includes ever friggin' aircraft designed between 1935-45 regardless of the theatre) that requires total compliance or you can't enter the room. So if you were playing satisfactorily on Sunday night, and can't get back on until Wednesday, you have to research every damn update on every applicable package before you can enter the game.

Or find that some players are mapping keys to control surface commands that were never implementable in hundredths of a second in Real Life (say, for example, zero-to-full flap or elevator trim with the press of a button mid-turn). Or altering wingtip vortexs to highly visible colors for tournament play. Or reading your mail.

Flight simming, for most of us, was recreation....play and camaraderie...that whole "fun" thing that you might only have forty-five minutes to allot to on a weeknight. Load, logon, set flaps and firewall the throttle. Instead, it managed to morph into a full-time freakin' job just to logon and make a simple takoff and landing that's great if you're 17 and have time and inclination to fool with (or 40 and still living in you're mom's basement). Put succinctly, a rabid (and greedy, as noted) few managed to kill it for a casual but paying majority who didn't do a lot of illicit file or tweak sharing so that they could claim victory in a dogfight that meant nothing beyond a few laughs for most people but was life itself for them.

Somewhere in the early 2000's, it was great fun to enter a room and be killed by other team-mates (or "friendly" enemy squads) just for the fun of being on together for an hour an laughing your butt off as you exchanged kills/killed over a beer.

Then, it got like Stoopy said...and it ruined it.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
A1Trigger_Happy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 778
Location: Alabama, USA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

Ah men brother stoopy and brother ascout. Thats the main reason I gave up gaming. No time and it takes to long to learn the games now a days. When I first got CFS it was install the game and go fly within 10min. Not anymore though. I gave up flight sims after IL2 and FSX. To much realism. Sheet those 100% games on the zone were a challenge. Still pickin lead outa my tail till this day lol.
Back to top
View user's profile
JG300-Stoopy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 5840
Location: Group W bench
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

- JG300-Ascout


I love a good Boss Hawg rant! Except they used to be a lot more fun-spirted and laugh-inducing, which tells me that he's REALLY pissed off!



Sorry 'bout that... the doctor just renewed my prescription for blood pressure meds today so I'm thinkin' the next rant will be a little more easygoing. Wink

To the OP's point I do believe CFS3 runs in 64 bit. BUT the problem is, where to buy it. For open architecture, although its not combat I'd say the community support and action is in FS9 or FSX if you want more of a challenge.

_________________
"Once your reputation is ruined, you can live quite freely."
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Shadow_Homfixr
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL-USA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Combat FS for today ?

Like I said " FUN=simple!" nuff said.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Officer's Club
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum